Breaking Stigmas and Reclaiming Your Mental Health with Juliet Kuehnle, MS, NCC, LCMHCS

• Find out what to look for in a therapist. 
• Recognize how language shapes your perceptions and beliefs in hidden ways. 
• Let’s understand the validity of all feelings without judgment! 

Juliet Kuehnle is a National Board-Certified Counselor and mental health therapist who founded and owns Sun Counseling & Wellness, a group private practice in Charlotte, North Carolina that provides telehealth throughout NC, SC, FL, VA, and NY. She is also a mental health/wellness consultant, speaker, and writer. 

Juliet's first book, Who You Callin' Crazy?! The Journey From Stigma To Therapy was published in May 2023. It’s written in 3 parts, to take readers from curiosity to action around tending to their mental health. Juliet hosts a podcast also called, Who You Callin' Crazy?! that features practical therapy tips and conversations with interesting people you want to know.

Juliet's website: yepigototherapy.com
Juliet on IG: yepigototherapy

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*Music by Sam Murphy*
IG: @sammmmmmurphy

Transcript

The Truth About Therapy: Breaking Stigmas and Reclaiming Your Mental Health with Juliet Kuehnle, MS, NCC, LCMHCS

Jessica Hornstein: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of podcast. So glad you're here. Today I am here with Juliet Kuehnle. Juliet, welcome. So happy you're here. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Thanks for having me. 

Jessica Hornstein: Excited for this conversation. I'm going to read your bio and then we can get to it. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Hey, let's do it. 

Jessica Hornstein: Juliet Kuehnle is a National Board-Certified Counselor and Mental Health Therapist who founded and owns Sun Counseling and Wellness, a group private practice in Charlotte, North Carolina that provides telehealth throughout North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and New York. She is also a mental health wellness consultant, speaker, and writer. 

Juliet's first book, Who You Callin’ Crazy? The Journey from Stigma to Therapy was published in May 2023. It's a book written in three parts to take readers from curiosity to action around tending to their mental health. Juliet also hosts a podcast called Who You Calling Crazy that features practical therapy tips and conversations with interesting people you want to know.

She is regularly featured on the news and has been in many publications including Newsweek, Insider, Shondaland, Psych Central, and Medium. So welcome again, love the name of your book and your podcast. 

Juliet Kuehnle: I know. I mean, when I saw yours, I was like, okay, we are totally aligned. We're gonna have lots to talk about.

Jessica Hornstein: We need to talk for sure. Yeah. , So if you could, I'd love to hear you just sort of start. So I'm going to start with how you got into this work and really what, you know, sort of what the of your work is about and, and what those titles mean?

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. Okay. So I am someone who always knew that this is what I wanted to do was to be a therapist. And a lot of that was because of my own. , therapist that I had when I was younger and just being so aware of the impact it had on my life. Uh, and then just always being fascinated by people's stories. So I just always knew that like, oh my gosh, this is something where I don't think it'll feel like work. It's such an honor to be, to walk alongside someone in their journey and to have someone Be vulnerable with you and to help them reach their, their goals toward healing and balance and wholeness. And so, , a big part of my mission is around showing up as a therapist who goes to therapy. I still go to therapy regularly.

Um, and firmly believe in walking the walk. And, my mission is to end the stigma in, in the way we talk about, just elevate the way we talk about mental wellness and therapy as one really valuable tool, , intending to that mental wellness. 

Jessica Hornstein: Hmm. Yeah. And I, I really appreciate that. , part of what you feel strongly about is, is sort of modeling that by going to therapy yourself and, I wonder, I mean, in your experience, like is that common for therapists or do you find sometimes therapists are a little resistant to that? I grew up with psychologist parents, so I'm very curious.

Juliet Kuehnle: I know, um, I, at the risk of sounding like judgmental, right, I cannot imagine doing this work without doing my own work. I cannot imagine. And I would say that again, this is my personal opinion. I would see that as sort of a red flag and not that someone has to actively be in therapy forever, but I would love to know that my therapist has put in the work and that has sat on the, the quote, other side of the couch is what I often say. Wow. Um, and in my practice, you know, we're all very open about that. We, we pride ourselves on being kind of like the human first and then the therapist. And so, because that's, that's what we are, we are humans first, and we have of course all of this training and expertise and blah, blah, blah. But we are still humans with our own stuff. And so to me, it's a, it's non negotiable that I am consistently working on that and, and also having the space to hold, a place to process the heaviness of what I do too. It's part of my self care. So again, to me, it's non negotiable, but there are definitely, some people out there who have not done their own work and I'm not here to say like, they're not good at what they do, but I think there's a different vibe when someone, again, has sat on the other side of the couch.

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah, I think, like, as you say, I mean, it's, it's not just about, I think one important piece, right, is to have the, just to have the experience and to know what it's like to be on the other side of that. But as, as you're pointing out, to have done your own work, and I mean, this applies to all sorts of scenarios, not just being a therapist, but will make you better at being able to hold space for so many things, any relationship. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the biggest benefits of therapy is increasing one's self awareness. So just going with this example, the more self aware I can be and the more, you know, aware of my triggers and my patterns and my core beliefs, all of that, then I can also make sure that I'm showing up in the room as a therapist completely appropriately, you know, where there's not that counter transference or other kind of barriers or that are, that are going to get in the way.

Hope and again, it's not, that doesn't mean I'm perfect at it. It doesn't mean other people aren't capable of that, but it definitely sets me up to be more present in that way. 

Jessica Hornstein: What do you think are the stigmas around therapy? I mean, Yes, I know there's many but yeah, what do you see as sort of some of the mean, the main stigmas around going?

Juliet Kuehnle: It's such an interesting conversation that is different now than it even was, you know, pre pandemic, which is when I started, you know, my podcast and my book and all of that was because the conversation was shifting during the pandemic, right? It was the first time that we were all struggling with this collective thing. And so people were more willing to say like, I'm not okay. Yeah. And so there's, there was a shift and my hope was that we would continue kind of riding that out and continue to eradicate stigma, um, while the needle has moved. There's still a long way to go but there are different, different levels or, types of stigma.

So a lot of it starts with just our own kind of self shame. Uh, there's something wrong with me, I'm broken these types of things. I think about the way that it's portrayed like in the media or even the way it's discussed in the media is typically that it's a dangerous thing. There are so many misconceptions that are kind of perpetuated like through movies or books or whatever that that displays it a certain way. We see systemic stigma, where people are treated differently or policies that kind of punish, for lack of a better word, people who do struggle with a mental illness. So there's all these different types of things that continue to make it seem like it's just other people. And so a big part of my work is, is helping us understand how we are all differently impacted by it. So for one thing, we all have mental health, which, you know, actually is sometimes like a light bulb moment for some people that they distinguish that between or from mental illness, that we all have mental health, just like we all have physical health. And then one in four, for adults, one in five youth are going to have a mental illness.The CDC says 50 percent of adults will be diagnosed at some point in their lifetime. It's, it's not just like random and other people, if it's not us, it's someone in our lives. And so I am on, again, that's part of what my messaging is around is that we need to, Stop acting like it's doesn't impact us. And it's just something that we can kind of avoid. And the more we can do that, the more people will feel comfortable talking about it or accessing support. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. We do have that inclination to think there's something wrong with us. And I think what's so important to sometimes acknowledge when we are struggling is that there are very good reasons for why we may be struggling. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Sure. 

Jessica Hornstein: And I mean, the pandemic is, is very extreme example of that. There was something like, Oh, why are we stressed? Well, we're living through something really difficult. But, even pandemic aside, we're dealing with so many things all the time, you know, different things, we all have different challenges in our lives. And, we've all had different childhoods and this and that, but I think we really minimize a lot of the time what we're, what we're, we're managing, you know, internally on any given day and any given moment.

Juliet Kuehnle: And we compare a lot to where we, yeah, to your point of minimizing, we'll say like, well, it's not that bad. It could be worse or so and so’s going through worse or all these things that, that invalidate our own experience. And, even just understanding how mental illness is a biopsychosocial disease, you know that there's biology at play for a lot of us. The way that our brains are wired, , and then the psychological piece and then then then social and life, you know, social factors, life events on top of that.

And so when we can understand it in that really holistic way to then we can we usually can tend to be a little bit more compassionate around it. It's not, again, something wrong with me. This is why. And then I'm going to be more likely to go and seek support and figure out what I have available to me to cope with this.

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Compassion towards ourselves and also towards others, right? Because we can say those things to ourselves all the time. Like, Oh, I shouldn't be so upset or I should be able to deal with it, you know, but we say it to other people too. Not that bad. Well, it could be at least you have this, you know, right? We are like, we may be well meaning, but we do that a lot. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Well, there's, yeah, there's platitudes, uh, we think are gonna make someone feel better. Um, and that really lives in a, uh, you know, that toxic positivity kind of space, which especially on like social media, there's that sort of type of messaging too of just good vibes only or yeah, just think happy thoughts. It could be worse and it is a really invalidating position to take. Very dismissive.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm hmm. Yeah. So I think you know it's so important to acknowledge that for ourselves and for others to to even say there are reasons why you feel the way you do and that's okay.

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. 

Jessica Hornstein: And then what do we do about it, right? Then, as you were saying, you know, what are the resources? How can I get support in, in managing this? 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yep. And then the other thing about stigma too, is again, why I named all of my work, Who You Calling Crazy as well, is, is sort of my attempt to take back the language. I mean, the language matters so much around how stigmatizing things feel. And we, we use words so casually. , You know, like crazy or insane or whatever. We use even diagnoses casually and incorrectly and inappropriately and all of those things again perpetuate misunderstanding and stigma as well. So, so, yeah, that's why I named it. That is just a, it's like, funny, clever, like yours but it's also a call to action of, um, you know, often what we really mean when we say things like crazy is human. And we're, we're dismissing this idea that we're actually just talking about somebody who's going through real life stuff like most of us. And, uh, so I think the language is really important too.

Jessica Hornstein: That's a great point. And yeah, I came, I came up with the name for, for this podcast because. I kept hearing using that word. against themselves a lot. They'd be in a toxic relationship and trying to fix it or something. And, they say, I mean, I'm not crazy, right? Like, am I crazy? Like, you know, I have to tell you this story but inherent in that question is some belief that like, maybe you are like, it's you. Right. And, sometimes, I mean, we all have our stuff. Nobody's perfect. But, but I think we, we really use that as a weapon against ourselves so much of the time and it keeps us can keep us in a really stuck place. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. Yeah, where we kind of gaslight ourselves. Yes. Yep. 

Jessica Hornstein: Absolutely, absolutely. If you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear a little bit more about sort of your personal experience. Um, because you alluded to that part of what made you want to become a therapist was your own therapist or that experience . So I'd love to, you know, to, to hear more about that. Maybe some of those experiences and times in your life where you felt like that you maybe felt invalidated or you, needed that support. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes, I mean there have been lots of those moments throughout time, so I'm almost 40 and I think I went to my first provider therapist when I was like eight. So I've had different people along the way, which feels important to talk about too. That's, that's actually why I wrote the book was kind of to answer some of those frequently asked questions I get about, like how to find a therapist, how to break up with a therapist. How do you know it's right for you because even that part of the journey can be really tricky and the number one predictor of success in therapy is how you connect with the therapist. So it's just imperative that you find somebody that fits whatever season of whatever you're going through and that you vibe with and I've had experiences where that wasn't the case and I stayed in it and we weren't really getting things done. And, and, so the journey of trying to find the right fit too. But yeah, as a kid, I had a ton of like existential anxiety, a lot of death anxiety, and then just alongside, you know, family of origin stuff, of course, and, some attachment issues and it's basically just when a lot of my anxiety started. And for most of my life, I've over identified with anxiety. I now know that just, I'm an anxious person. I kind of blamed everything on anxiety. And then pretty recently, several years ago, another, a new therapist said like, I think you've got some depression going on. And it was like, what? Cause I, again, had always just attributed everything to anxiety.

But as we, and even as a therapist knowing all these things, right. It's like, hard when it's you, yourself. So unpacking some of that, it was like, oh yeah, that actually , a little bit of what's going on there too. So I've treated and I continue to do the work around anxiety and depression for myself. I have some PTSD as well from some sexual trauma. And now I'm in this season of where I've done a ton of cognitive work and trauma work EMDR throughout my life, but I'm now somatic work, as a client, but I'm also in my training to become a somatic experiencing practitioner because I, it's like, it just clicked for me again, that mind body connection that we can't ignore. You know, part of when a lot of the mantra that I often share with clients and myself repeatedly is trusting the process and I'm at the point in my process where bringing in more of the body work feels safer and feels accessible. , and so even again, this many years into it and at 40 years old and as a therapist myself, I'm starting a new modality, which feels, you know, nerve wracking and also hopeful and exciting.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm hmm. That's great. Mm hmm. Yeah, because there's so many ways, and people respond in different ways, to access what needs to be accessed. Yeah. I love that. What do you find are the, you know, some people's biggest challenges in these, these beliefs we have, right, are so ingrained , most of the time we don't even know they're there. It’s, you know, you don't question the party line. You just, it's, it's just what you've come to believe is truth, so I'm wondering what you think, what is the biggest challenge or some of the biggest challenges people face in really shedding these old beliefs or messages that really have an active role playing upon them now, you know, decades later after childhood or experiences or, you know, whatever happened. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah, we kind of, like we said earlier about awareness being the first step. If you, like you said, if you've just been subscribing to a belief system for so long, it becomes, just, it becomes the narrative, it becomes the filter through which you see things, feel things, act from, all of that. And so it sometimes takes a long time to get somebody to a place where they can truly understand this is the core belief from which I'm operating. And then we can start to tease out what are some of the things that have, that have fueled that. What are some of the big T or little t traumas that have happened that have corroborated that for you?

And then there has to be like the willingness for someone to Let go of it, which in some ways you might be like, well, why wouldn't someone want to let go of a negative core belief? But again, if you've been operating this way for decades, there's often fear in releasing that for people. There's a lot of existential fear of like, who am I without this?

You know, um, change is scary for a lot of people. So we also have to work really hard in building that self trust that, , in letting this go and replacing it with a more adaptive belief. Here's how that's actually going to align with your values or align with, the balance you're looking for or whatever, but sometimes quote, unquote, convincing them, it takes some effort.

And then again, that kind of going back to that body trust. A lot of us that have been operating from a negative core belief have been dysregulated, have had dysregulated nervous systems for just as long where we've either been in like in that fight, flight, freeze, fawn or whatever. And so sometimes our body, Doesn't get the memo as quickly as our mind does. We might be able to intellectually know, okay, this isn't helpful. I'd like to think differently or operate differently, but our nervous system is still holding on to this protective layer. And so that is where there's a lot of our deep work too, to be able. and be able to work on the embodiment of it . So helping someone to learn how to self soothe and regulate and, and trust that they can move through that can take a lot of efforting and be hard work.

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Yeah, there is so much fear it just pushes the edges of everything. As you said, like, who am I, but then what does that mean for all the other choices I've made about my life? Um, exactly. And, you know, if I acknowledge that X, Y, or Z isn't true, then what does that mean? What do I do? , what do I do next? Or how can I even keep living in this the same way I've been living? 

Juliet Kuehnle: Exactly. And there's like, there's often a lot of grief in this process, which people don't always recognize. But there's grief for, kind of what you were just saying of what, what I might've lost or how things might've looked because I was operating this way. Grief that it might've kept me from living into my values as much. I mean, I often find that, that there's, there are layers of grief that we have to work through in order to help someone get to acceptance. 

Jessica Hornstein: Move forward. Yeah. I'd love to hear more about some of the words that you think we need to eliminate or shift the way we approach them. You talked about crazy being one of them. I'd love to hear more because I think, language as you, as you pointed to, is one of those things that just sort of, snakes its way in and gives us these beliefs and we don't realize it. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah. I mean, so you've got a couple of things you have like we're saying where it's maybe more obvious like crazy, insane, cuckoo, you know, all these things that are derogatory about our mental health. You also have, you know, the over identification. I mentioned this even for myself with anxiety, with language. So using myself as the example again, where for a long time I would basically say, I am anxious. And that language, again, impacts, like, my belief system and my self concept so much. I am saying, I am anxious. And the difference in being able to say something like, I am having an anxious thought. I notice that I have an anxious feeling in my chest. So a little bit of even just, like, room and separation from over identifying with some language too can also soften some of those beliefs and shift our, our self concept.

So I think, again, being aware of what that inner dialogue and that self talk is with language is important. , and then the other one I mentioned is like using diagnoses inappropriately and examples of that would be like when people say like, Oh my gosh, you're so OCD because you load the dishwasher that way. And it's like, well, Okay, do they actually have a clinical diagnosis of OCD or are they just particular about the way the plates go in? And it matters because somebody who does have a clinical diagnosis of OCD, I mean, how dismissive and invalidating is that? And it also just shows it contributes to this misunderstanding of what people actually struggle with.

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. And that things that are completely, i's just a personality thing. Right. Yes, not some big, huge, right. Yes. And I think that that's so important, what you're saying about, I am anxious or that kind of thing, because that’s it's like saying, I am Jessica, right? You know, it's, it's making it, that's who I am, as you said, over identifying with it, rather than that's something that's going on, or maybe a piece of, of your, your makeup, but it's, that's not your whole self.

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. Yeah. That's where the core belief stuff matters. If I have a core belief that I'm not good enough, and that's the language I keep repeating, or that's the filter, you know, what we do is that confirmation bias. I continue to collect evidence that I'm not good enough. And so, um, Again, being able to increase that awareness of that is the recurring thought or belief system I have, and then what am I going to do to try to reframe that, rephrase that, uh, I, you know, this triggers me to feel not good enough is even quite different than that over identification piece.

Jessica Hornstein: What do you think? I know this is, you know, it's a, it's a long, complicated process and I don't want to diminish it in any way, but what do you think is maybe a first step in getting that awareness, gaining some awareness about the, the way you are speaking to yourself and the languaging you're using?

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah. So it's important to know that like the data says we have up to like 60, 000 unique thoughts a day and that 80 percent of those are negative and something like 95 percent are repetitive. So I say that because I don't in any way mean for any of this to sound easy. 60,000 thoughts a day. No one expects you to be able to pay attention to all 60,000 of them and decide what to do with them. So I'm just affirming why this is so hard first and foremost. Yes. 

Jessica Hornstein: Why we're all so exhausted. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Totally. I know. It's, it's actually wild. So the reason that so many, you know, therapists, psychologists, whatever, we talk about like mindfulness, which, you know, has been a watered down buzzword, but the reason that that actually matters is because that's a skill that helps us learn how to observe our thoughts and our feelings and our sensations, but just, you know, the question was about thoughts. And so a lot of people think like mindfulness meditation, when it's just about like achieving Zen. And so, so many of us will say like, I'm so bad at it. And those of us that say we're bad at it are typically the ones that really could benefit from it because it's not about achieving Zen.

It's a teaching us to observe how to kind of un-velcro from some of that like hamster wheel repetitive noise in our heads so that we can observe what's happening, what thoughts, feelings, sensations we're having. So, it's a really good tool and it's, it's a muscle basically you have to build. You don't just do mindfulness one time and you've got it. We have to practice that over time. And so, You also might use your body as a, , kind of a cue to use some of these skills too. So let's say all of a sudden you're aware that you have a tightness in your chest, you know, there's a belief in psychology that our thoughts cause our feelings so that your body's cue in that way could be your sign to say like, okay, so , now that I feel that tightness in my chest, what's going through my head? Oh, I noticed that I was thinking, she didn't call me back because she's mad at me. And then I can kind of decide, well, is that true or false? Or more importantly, is that helpful thought? You know, what do I want to do with it? But because we're so often on autopilot, we're not really even paying attention to those bodily cues or, um, being curious about our thoughts.And so that's another thing mindfulness helps us do is to, to pay attention on purpose, get out of that autopilot a little bit to decide what we want to do with whatever's going on in our brain and body. 

Jessica Hornstein: And it's such a. embracing way to approach who we are and, and that statistic to know that that's everybody, that's not just people who are struggling. That's, that is the human condition at least the way we're wired at this, this point in time and to accept that. And so it's not, about talking yourself out of how you feel. It’s about the recognition of it, you know? And I think, I think even people, even for those of us who have done lots and lots of work on ourselves, the idea isn't, you don't get to point in your life of like, Most people don't. Maybe they're one or two. I don't want to say everybody, but, but you know, the idea is not that we're going to get to some place where nothing ever upsets you, where you've healed all those wounds and you know, there's no residue of any of it. I think so many things that are maybe challenging for us or triggers or things like that. Maybe some of them we can mostly put away, but I think for most of them, there's still going to be that little piece right that we feel it. You get jealous or, you, whatever your thing is, you feel it. It's not about never feeling that, it's about making that, just getting in there in that tiny space before you react in a way that's coming from an unhelpful place or an old place, right, and where you can stop yourself, as you were saying, and say, hold on.

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah. I mean, I talk about that all the time, that well-being is not the absence of hardships and stressors, you know, all of those things are guaranteed. And even when people start therapy, especially for the first time, I'm like, By the way, I don't have a magic wand, I'm not going to make it all go away, and frankly I wouldn't do that, even if I could. Because, and I often reference the movie Inside Out, and now the second one just came out and it's amazing. But it does a great job of depicting the necessity of all emotions. That we wouldn't know joy without sadness or fear or grief, you know. So, how they're all valid and they're all necessary, but the point of work I think that's a big part of what we're doing. Doing the work on ourselves is learning to tolerate the discomfort and trusting ourselves with it and having more tools in our toolbox. With which to handle the inevitable things that come at us. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Yes. Yes. And thank for making that point because it's true. Like the more you can be with difficult, it opens the door for all the emotions.To be able to feel everything. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I think on that note, I never say like positive or negative emotions, I use uncomfortable or comfortable. You know, there's no good or bad,. I think that's an important distinction because again, there's, they're all necessary and valid. Some feel better than others. Yeah, it's it's again the language that's where the language matters. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Thank you for making that point. That's so important. I really agree with that. was there some, even though we just talked about how, it's not getting to some goal point, right? This is just all a process and it's not, you get to some point in your life and you're like, okay, I'm, you know, fixed but, I'm always interested in this, like why do you think you were able to really dig in and approach all the challenges that you grew up with and everything else in the way you were, because so many people, so many people can’t and then other people can and I'm, I'm always curious as to, what, what it seems like within each person that sort of gave them that just that little bit of something where they could. They could really do that. 

Juliet Kuehnle: I mean, that's a good question, um, because sometimes I wonder that still, honestly. You know, um, and sometimes I also want to stop fighting for some of that work, not as far as I, I mean, just like, it's exhausting to go to therapy and to put in that work and sometimes I'm like, ugh, what's the point, you know? Even as somebody who totally buys in. Um, But I think, I mean, I believe, I believe this about my clients. So it must be true about me that we, we all have these, , inherent strengths and resiliency. And just like our physical bodies are kind of created to heal, you know, to, to try to choose healing when they can. I think that's, that's how we are, , mentally and psychologically as well. Um, so I think there's just that thing that's inherent that, You know, makes it worth fighting for.

And then when you do have those either corrective experiences or those aha moments, or those times when you, you do respond instead of react or whatever it is, you, you get more buy in. And so I've had enough examples of like, Oh, okay. This is how improvement or progress or healing is showing up. And so I'm going to stay the course.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So if somebody is looking to go to therapy, they feel like they'd like to, and there is stigma around it. Yeah. Right? And whether it's just from society at large, or it's closer to them of partner, family, friends, whomever. How do you think they can handle that? Like, what, how do they navigate that?

Juliet Kuehnle: I mean, there's a couple of ways you could take that either. There's one, like, how do you communicate it to somebody that might be judgmental of it? Um, but I think firstly, if you're curious about it, and again, not to keep referencing this, but it is, it is truly why I wrote that because there are so many misconceptions even about what therapy is. So going back to how, again, how it's displayed in movies or whatever, like you're not just laying on a couch talking to some old guy who's taking notes, you know, like there are like, I'm a therapist with blue hair, right? I'm very casual conversational. We are getting stuff done. But it's again, you get Julie at first, then you get the therapist and they're all different types of styles. So I, I encourage people to, if you're curious. start to do some research around like, either asking around or going to a website that has, that you can search for therapists and doing free meet and greets to get a feel for someone's vibe and style. And just know that there is somebody out there for you and it might take some, some trial and error and breaking up with a few therapists until you find the right person. And that's okay. So there is some patience that's required. , and then it just kind of, if the other part is, how do you communicate this to people who might be judgmental? It's certainly nuanced depending on what the situation is, but. Knowing that like, you don't necessarily have to explain yourself to anyone and that there's this funny meme that goes around from time to time that, you know, I'm in therapy to deal with the people in my life who won't go to therapy. There's a little bit of truth in that, that, um, people that are maybe judgmental of it, again, we'll just, well, we can be curious about why they might be closed off to it and you do you.

Jessica Hornstein: And you talked about finding the right therapist and I think that's a really important point because sometimes people, you know, they try a therapist, they go like, God, this isn't for me.

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. 

Jessica Hornstein: Or even worse, it can make them feel worse, right? Like you, therapy can make you feel crazy if you're with the wrong therapist, right? It can make you doubt yourself more. It can make you think, Oh, I am this, I am that, you know, you become over identified with all these things.

Juliet Kuehnle: Yes. 

Jessica Hornstein: So how do you know if you're with the right or the wrong therapist? 

Juliet Kuehnle: Right, especially because again, if you're new to it, and if you have any level of like self doubt we can easily, I mean, I've been in that position too where I'm like, oh, this doesn't feel exactly it, but maybe I'm not doing it right, maybe I can get better, maybe, you know, and then I wasted all this time when I knew, my gut knew this wasn't right, so there's a little bit of that of like trusting yourself and your instincts as long as you know that you're not just like avoiding things.You can listen to that inner knowing for sure. Um, but when you know, it's kind of like, you know, people say about finding like a partner, like when you know, you know, if you feel like, okay, I can see myself being vulnerable with this person. I am telling this person something that I didn't think I'd tell anybody or feeling safety in my body around this person. Like that, those are cues that, like, this is, this is the right connection. And also I encourage people to be. to, you know, sometimes being able to just tell the therapist, like, I'm feeling hesitant, which is super vulnerable and hard for people. But sometimes you can even work through some of those dynamics with the therapist and get to a place where you do feel more comfortable. Um, but a good place to start again is like meet and greets, because there might be some people off the bat that you're like, Nope, that's not it. Um, and then it might take a few sessions with somebody to really know, yay or nay. So that's why , you know, people might give up on the process because it's, you know. Um, it's a lot, especially if you've like told your story to somebody and then you decide I'm going to start over with somebody else. Now I got to do that again. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. 

Juliet Kuehnle: Yeah.

Jessica Hornstein: So thank you so much for being here. This work is great that you're doing and, um, I'm sure many people will be interested in learning more about it. Can you share with us please where they may be able to find you? 

Juliet Kuehnle: Oh, thank you. Yeah. So my, Instagram and website is yep, I go to therapy. That's again, um, just trying to, to normalize it. And so, yep, I go to therapy and I'm always happy to answer questions about all of these topics and love to connect with people and my group practice is sun counseling and wellness, and we're in Charlotte, but we also see people virtually, in various states.

So, again, like we're, you know, we're, we're trying to walk the walk, uh, and it's, it's important to have conversations like this too. So thank you so much for having me. 

Jessica Hornstein: Thanks, Juliet. Really appreciate it.