Being at Peace While Living with Anxiety with Laura Rhodes-Levin, LMFT

• How to treat yourself with kindness and encouragement, acting as the supportive parent you may not have had. 
• How to soften your inner critic and replace self-criticism with compassion. 
• Understand the distinction between anxiety grounded in reality and neurosis characterized by imagined threats turning into overwhelming fears.

Laura Rhodes-Levin, author of The Missing Peace: Rewire Your Brain, Reduce Anxiety, and Recreate Your Life is a licensed marriage and family therapist who specializes in the evaluation and treatment of anxiety, depression, and trauma. She holds a Master of Science in Counseling and is known for her unique approach in the understanding of anxiety and anxiety disorders.

Laura is the Founder of The Missing Peace Center for Anxiety, a facility that offers a variety of modalities, including psychotherapy, neurofeedback, play therapy, olfactory anxiety reduction, group therapy, movement, and more to help ease the nervous system and restore the brain, body, and mind to a place of calmness and relaxation.

In addition, Laura served as the Co-Chair for the Special Interest Group of Integrative Health for the Anxiety and Depression Association of America (ADAA), an international nonprofit membership organization and leader in education, training, and research for anxiety, depression, and related disorders and is the founder and director of the PHEW foundation, a mental health non-profit.

Laura's websites: phewmentalhealth.org
                               missingpeace4anxiety.com

Laura on IG: thequantumtherapist

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Website: https://www.jessicahornstein.com

*Music by Sam Murphy*
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Transcript

Jessica Hornstein: Welcome, everybody. I am delighted to be here today with Laura Rhodes Levin. Laura Rhodes Levin is the author of The Missing Piece, Rewire Your Brain, Reduce Anxiety, and Recreate Your Life. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist who specializes in the evaluation and treatment of anxiety, depression, and trauma.

She holds a Master of Science in Counseling and is known for her unique approach in the understanding of anxiety and anxiety disorders. Laura is the founder of the Missing Peace Center for Anxiety, a facility that offers a variety of modalities, including psychotherapy, neurofeedback, play therapy, olfactory anxiety reduction, group therapy, movement, and more, to help ease the nervous system and restore the brain, body, and mind to a place of calmness and relaxation.

In addition, Laura served as the co chair for the Special Interest Group of Integrative Health for the Anxiety and Depression Association of America, an international nonprofit membership organization, and leader in education, training, and research for anxiety, depression, and related disorders. And she is the founder and director of the Phew Foundation, a mental health nonprofit.

Laura, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. I should make my title shorter. 

Jessica Hornstein: No, you know what? Be proud of all you've done. It's really wonderful and um, the world, the world needs it. So I think this conversation will certainly offer a lot to a lot of people because, Anxiety seems to be pretty rampant these days.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: love, love the title of your show because it's so important. It's so important. And it's, it's how I start a lot of sessions. Truly. 

Jessica Hornstein: Really love to hear that. Um, so, could we start with how you sort of came to this, this work or this particular focus in your work? 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Yeah. Um, so I was born with terrible anxiety.

You know, from the time that I was a little girl, I was afraid of a bear in the closet just an excruciating, Blinkable anxiety. And in writing my book, what I discovered is we do inherit a lot of our trauma that is generational, . I feel like if I understand what's going on, it makes it better. If a woman didn't know what her menstrual cycle was, she would think she was dying every single month. Uh, but you know, it's the gift of life. So everybody just takes an Advil and smiles and grins and bears it for a couple of days. And, um, anxiety was not what was wrong with me.

It was what was right with me. But I didn't understand that. And I dealt with a lot of social anxiety and eventually, to be perfectly candid, you know, pot and alcohol and pills were a great way to relieve my anxiety, but what it really turned out to be was it was a way for me to stay in the moment. A lot of people think that using is about escape, but it's not. It's about being present. You know, when you're drunk, you're like, Oh my God, this music is great. I love you, man. You don't care about your taxes. And what happens with our anxiety, or at least my anxiety is it distracts me from being in the moment.

And, um, eventually I got sober and spent the rest of the decades trying to figure out how can I have inner peace? How can I be friends with my brain? And I'm happy to report we're getting along really well. 

Jessica Hornstein: That's really interesting what you're saying, because, um, yeah, you do usually think of those things as an escape, like drugs and alcohol as an escape. So that's so interesting. It's almost like. It took part of your brain sort of offline so that another part could come in, 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Yeah, and I think the term mindfulness has been so, inundated in our zeitgeist, but I don't think a lot of people understand How to really connect and it's through your five senses. Interestingly enough. It's not about being mindful. It's about being bodyful and I want to get people back in touch with that. Come to your senses. 

Jessica Hornstein: Hmm. Love that. So, um, you said, anxiety is not what is wrong with you, but what is right with you. And, that really struck me because that's something, that I talk a lot about in, in this podcast and in my work. So I would love you to elaborate on that. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Absolutely. And that's the no, not crazy piece, right? So to understand anxiety, it's, it's our fight, flight mechanism. So if you're a little person and you're playing in the meadow with your friends and you hear a rustle in the bush and you see a big fuzzy face, And it eats your friend and then you've just met a lion for the first time that goes into your limbic system into your amygdala, and it stays there.

It's supposed to stay there. So that the next time you hear a rustle in the bush and you see the fuzzy face, you run. But the more and more. Lions we encounter the more hyper vigilant that part of our brain gets and eventually you hear a rustle and you're out of there.

It could be a bunny rabbit. It could be the wind, but you're already long gone and. I think in today's world it's become so much more prevalent because our brains don't really have the chance to rest the way they used to. Our phone is pinging, , how many times a day, text messages, emails, and so our voice is always like, what was that?

Oh, I have to answer that. Oh, oh, and it all, they're all little, they're not big lions. They're little, they're little things, but they add up. And so our brains have just become, have learned to pay way too much attention to what's going on in that respect and it's a matter of toning it back down, of learning that, and this is where neurofeedback plays a huge part of my practice is that's the brain's ability to regulate itself and recognize that there's no lions in the room with you.

Okay. But, it's a really important part of our brains that we never want to let go of, but we do need to learn how to invite it into the backseat instead of driving all the time. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. So it's a balance. There's a balance there of acknowledging it. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Recognizing the difference between your anxiety and your neurosis.

Jessica Hornstein: How would you make that distinction? In the moment, everything feels real, right? 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Like, yeah, if you find that your thoughts are predicting doom, that's turned into the more neurotic, right? Because it's, it's a liar that predicts doom. If someone's late, You're like, Oh my God, they're dead. They got in a terrible car accident and maybe they just stopped to buy you flowers, but even if you know, both cases are probably less likely than the person's just running late. But when you're going to these scenarios of what if, what if I move there and nobody likes me? What if my new boss hates me? What if they're calling me into the office to fire me? If you're going into those dark scenarios, you've crossed over.

And, What if it's the opposite? What if you're about to get a promotion? What if moving to the new town is the best thing you've ever done? What if this date works out really well? So recognizing doom is, is when you go, okay, that's, it's probably not the worst case scenario. 

Jessica Hornstein: So how, how can we on a day to day basis really start to function from a different place. Because we probably don't even realize we're doing it so much of the time. Right. And, , yes, maybe we can stop every now and then and say, okay, you know, it's probably not that worst case scenario, but I think it's so, um, it's so prevalent and just so consistent, like a constant, , for so many people, right, like a constant stream of thought that can really get in our way. How do we begin to sort of interrupt and shift that process?

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Right, and understanding that part of it is biological. We are trained to look at a situation, determine the dangers, and then proceed accordingly. But, um, I like to reduce it to something I call DMV syndrome. So when you find out you have to go to the DMV, you're like, oh my God, I have to go to the DMV in July.

I hate the DMV. And there's all this thought about the DMV. And then that week is, oh my God, the DMV this week. And then let's say it's at three o'clock in the afternoon on a Wednesday. All of Wednesday is ruined because you have to go to the DMV and my thought process is make your appointment. And put it out of your mind.

Every single time it comes up, you switch to something else. And I'd love to do an exercise with you in a moment, but even when you're on your way to the DMV, listen to a podcast, talk to a friend on the phone. Don't even think about the DMV until you're sitting in there and then. You bring a book, you, you sit around and people watch, it's over before you know it.

So if you fall into DMV syndrome, you spend four months at the DMV instead of two hours. But it's so easy to say, don't think about something, but that's the whole, don't stare at the elephant in the room. So if it, it, does it make sense to walk your audience through an exercise right now? That would be great.

Okay, so whoever wants to participate, find an object in front of you and describe it out loud to yourself. So I am looking at the lovely Jessica. So I am going to say she's got long brown hair and a really pretty smile and light comes through her eyes. She's got a pretty necklace. Okay, now keep looking at that object.

And don't think about it.

Really hard to do. But now I'm going to look to my right and I'm going to look at a painting on my wall that has a moon and a tree and it's got different colors and now Not thinking about Jessica anymore because I've actually shifted my focus. Now this is a podcast, so of course I am thinking about you, but for the people at home, you only had to look at the other object and think about it for like, 20 seconds, 10 seconds before you completely forgot about the previous object and try this over again when, when you're not listening to the podcast.

And what you're doing is you're training your brain to go elsewhere. Right now, your brain is trained to go to what if to go to the anxious scenarios. So if you can retrain your brain to look down and go, What am I wearing on my feet right now? What color is my top? What, what can I touch in my hand? What am I smelling right now?

Anything that brings you into the moment, or think about something fun that's coming up. But just getting in the habit of redirecting your thoughts away from the DMV, the job interview, the operation, you know. I I was, asked to come in for a biopsy a couple of years ago for something they saw in my, one of my lymph nodes.

And I just went, okay, I got the biopsy and now I'm going to Tahoe. I am not even going to think about it. When I did think about it, it made me sick. So I would redirect my thoughts to what I was doing in the moment. And it turned out to be negative. And even if it had been terrible, I would have had one more week of good times. You know what I mean? And then even in the diagnosis, whatever's going to happen, you may as well do the best you can to enjoy each day because the worry is just pointless. It just, it's a stealer of joy. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. Um, is there a line, do you think, like, how do we know when we're doing that in a healthy way, like, okay, I'm going to take my thoughts over here instead, or in a way that's, you know, it can be taken too far in certain situations, right, where it's avoidant, or, , bypassing, or, , any of those things. Where, where do you think that line is? 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Well, I think there's a big difference between procrastination and perseveration. So when you're obsessing about something, that's different than avoiding it. I find most things that we're avoiding. , it's, it's a fear based situation where, , , I talk about this to, , my niece and nephew, even if you're thinking about a paper that you don't want to write.

The days that you spend thinking about that paper does not hold a candle to the one hour that you would have to do something, you know, if you're, someone's thinking about work the night before, you've got almost a whole 13 hours and you're thinking about six hours that are going to go by.

Before you know it. So just being in the moment with it and get it done as soon as possible, you know, fear is, is 10 miles wide and it's 10 miles high, but it's paper thin. The minute you just, you know, Walk through it. It's done. It's absolutely done. So get her done without a bumper sticker. Um, the bigger problem is that you're perseverating, not the problem itself. Yes. Yes. 

Jessica Hornstein: And I just have to say, I love you for using the word perseverating because that's a word I use a lot. And I had somebody who said, Jessica, don't use that word. Nobody ever, nobody knows that word. You and I are kindred spirits.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Do not pander. 

Jessica Hornstein: I love that, uh, what you said about that fear is however many miles wide, but paper thin that's. That is such an, I had never heard that or thought about that, thought it that way before, and that is really interesting. That's a great way, I think, to put it.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Thank you. And on the perseveration, I'm thinking, then someone will go look it up and learn a new word. Yeah. So it's, it's helpful. And I think so many of us do that. I do. Yeah, absolutely. And then they hear it like eight more times somewhere else when they think it's a word they've never even heard of before. All of a sudden, there it is. 

Jessica Hornstein: Exactly. Exactly. Um, so what do you think is sort of, I mean, do you see a common, thread or something in what the biggest challenge is or, you know, a couple threads maybe that people face in really the shedding, old messages and beliefs that probably don't serve them anymore. You know, as you said, maybe the one time, it makes sense to run. You hear the rustle, but, but a lot of these things are very, very old and deeply internalized, right? We don't even realize that it's running the show. So, yeah, so I guess I'm just wondering what commonalities that really trips people up from really being able to sort of, um, be more embodied in the present in their truth and without the anxiety.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Well, that's why my book is called, um, the missing piece. P E A C E, rewire your brain, reduce anxiety and recreate your life because three things come to mind just off the top of my head. The first one is a chapter I have in my book called my choices question mark. And I find that. A lot of the, or I used to find that a lot of the conversation that went on in my head about what I should or shouldn't do with my life seemed like my own voice.

But when I really went into it, it wasn't. My voice, it was my mother's voice or my father's voice or my friend's voice. And I make the, the, the observation that I had bought orange juice for years and never drank it because you're just supposed to have orange juice in your refrigerator. And then one day I replaced it with guava juice, which I also did not drink.

And guess what? I don't like juice. So I don't buy juice anymore. I But it took me several years of living on my own to go. Why are you doing this? And I have a lot of clients that carry that voice in their head of their parents. And I say to them, do you want your parents’ life? Is that the life you would choose for yourself?

And more often than not, that answer is no. So why are you making their choices? Those choices don't apply to your life. The other piece is the inner critic, and that's just that voice inside that is so hard on yourself. And I have a lot of clients say with pride, Oh, no one's harder on myself than I am. And I just go, Oh my God, why? Please don't do that to yourself. Don't should all over yourself. And just giving yourself permission to be human and understand that. There's a part of us that wants to be accepted so badly by the world around us.

And so we try to season ourselves to fit into the flavor that we're near. But the truth is the universe made you. Jessica to be exactly who you are. There's only one Jessica Hornstein. There's only one Laura Rhoades 11 and the universe doesn't need 10 Laura Rhoades 11. It needs one. And the more and more you are yourself.

The more and more you will vibrate toward people who appreciate and love you and get you, um, they say when you take a tuning fork in the key of C. And you hit it, all the other Cs in the room vibrate, but the Ds don't, and the Fs don't. So why try and vibrate like a G chord when you're a C chord? Because all you're gonna do is attract the Gs when you, you have no connection to that. So really being yourself. , is so important. So, so, so, so important. And then the last thing that I think really holds people up is the world around us. The politics, the, the, the tragedy that goes on, around this world because it's just what this world is made up of.

I think it's really important to do your part in whatever way that is. So my part is helping people with mental health. Let's say someone's an actor, that their part is to make someone laugh and to take them out of the present moment. And I find that a lot of people feel they're bad. If they're not feeling the world's problems inside of them.

And another chapter that I have in my book is called bad news. I don't want to listen to the news. I used to feel I was ignorant if I didn't listen to the news, but unless I'm going to go out there and do something specific, which I did at one time. Then what am I doing? It, it's likely not going to change the way your life is right now, but you walk around with all this tragedy.

And I, I remember I was on Zoom with some women when Roe v. Wade was , turned over, which of course I find appalling. I mean, no offense to anyone who doesn't feel that way whoever, Is is fighting for pro life has a a true genuine fear. All of us are acting on our fears.

But I remember a woman saying on the zoom, what a terrible day to be alive. And I thought, oh my God, it's a beautiful day. There are so many beautiful things still happening , on this earth. If you want to give to Planned Parenthood, do that but you don't have to feel everyone's pain to be a good person if that makes sense.

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah, it's hard. It's coming at us all the time, right? I mean, yes, it's one thing. I guess we can not put the news on It's hard to avoid , there's social media. So it's, it's challenging, isn't it to stay in a place that's healthy for you . And as you say, I everybody should do what they can and what makes sense for you with your own skillset or passions or whatever resonates for you, but, there's, there is a lot coming at us. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Yeah. I mean, my husband listens to the news. I used to listen to news 24 seven. And honestly, if you turn on the news now, it's not that different than it was three years ago. You're not missing much. It's the same stuff over and over and over again. And for me, it just makes me just like angry and so much of it is just political and money Yeah. Even, even when there's, it's not political and something awful has happened on the other side of the world. Do something, donate, do something that helps you feel good about it. And then come back to the room you're in, be with the people you're with, enjoy your life. That's what the universe needs is positive energy, not fear and hate.

Jessica Hornstein:  Yeah. I want to go back to something you said about people saying that. Oh, you know, no one's harder on themselves than than or no one's harder on me than I am on myself. Because, you know, I think I mean, that's, that's true. I do hear a lot of people saying that as sort of a badge of honor, and I, I think about that, I have always said about my kidssomebody asked me about my kids or, you know, I'm, I'm their biggest fan. You know, I'm their mom. I should be. I should be. I don't think there's anything about bragging about your kids. Like they're your kids. Of course you are supposed to think they're like the most wonderful people on the planet. And I think also we should do that for ourselves as well in that same way. Like, especially if we didn't have a parent doing that for us, we need to do that for ourselves. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Yeah. So, so important. And. You know, I consider it to be quantum physics. If, if you are, you know, the example I use often is there's those days where you catch your sleeve on the door walking out and you spill your coffee and then you dump your purse out trying to pick up the coffee.

And then some jerk cuts you off on the freeway and you're just having one of those days, in air quotes, and you are definitely traveling in a quantum field of negativity and, and crunch. But then we've all had those days where you find a dollar in your pocket, and someone's so nice to you at the store, and then, , you get let in on the freeway, and It's not that the whole world changed.

It's that the world you're traveling in has changed. Your vibration has changed. And so many people who are so hard on themselves attract relationships and jobs that are hard on them. But when you treat yourself with love and care and kindness, guess what you're on the level with you have healthy life affirming relationships.

And it sounds woo, woo, but it's freaking science. It is quantum. Physics, we vibrate at a certain way, just like the key of C and that's what you're going to get back. And remembering when you're talking that way to yourself, Oh, Oh, I'm such a moron. I can't believe I did that. You are talking to that wounded part of yourself, and if, if you had a kid. You know, if your kids next to you and they're, they're not doing well on a math problem, you would not say to them, well, you're an idiot. You may as well give up now because you're never going to move forward. You had a good run, buddy, but unless you change yourself, you're, you're screwed. I mean, this kid would just shrivel up in a ball. But if you say, Oh my gosh, you're so close. Let's, let's try it again. You can do this, but we can, we'll take a break. We'll come back to it. Then you're going to have success. And a lot of people were forced and programmed through negative messaging. And that's so important to rewrite. So important. Be the parent you didn't have. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. It's so deep in there. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: And going back, do you want to be those people, is that the life you want? 

Jessica Hornstein: True. Because there's sort of like a party line we all grow up with in some ways about this is just how it's done like you said, you know, it was juice. Right, yeah. Sometimes,, they're, they're even more life changing kinds of decisions. And, we're just sort of on autopilot about so many things we don't even realize. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Oh, yeah. And I have so many women come to the center and men who they're in their fifties and sixties and they're just like, what was this all about? And they never had a chance to think they, they went through school. They were told, get married. Now you have kids, they've got bills. . . Many people end up in professions that were never them. Um, and now the fifties and sixties can be such an amazing time to finally get to be the you that you never got to be that you didn't even know was there. Like you're just finding stuff out and you're just trying different things. And you go, I really like this. So figure out how to make that work. It's awesome. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. I think we spend so much time being really performative. Right. Not consciously necessarily, but we sort of, do what we think is expected.

What will, get people to love us or stay orwhatever. I'm wondering we can go back to your personal story a little bit from that place when you were, drinking and doing all these things. What was it that helped you, see things a different way or realize, oh, I'm struggling with this, or I, I need to shift something and what the root of it was, you know, was there something that, triggered that.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Addiction is such a strange animal and, and I was really a very low, um, I had to literally be in the hospital dying of liver and pancreas poisoning. And the doctors were saying, you're going to die unless you get sober. And my response. Seriously, hand to God was give me an Ativan. I'll think about it. So I have such respect for people who catch it, who make a decision that they want more before they're at death's door. And luckily with  the talk of drugs and alcohol today, um, you know, I grew up in the 60s and 70s and that was the way to go. And it's definitely the way to go, literally like go dead. If you think about, I want to get wasted, that's literally what you're doing. You're, you're wasting. so unfortunately for me, I had to hit a real bottom, but what I learned in doing the steps, the 12 steps is that my two biggest fears were not being liked and not fitting in and, and I, uh, some abandonment stuff. And once I was able to, again, re, reparent myself. love myself. It's so corny, but that's really what these 12 step programs teach you how to do is love yourself. They say, we'll love you until you love yourself. And then we'll still keep loving you after that. and everybody has to get there in a different way.

I find if you're waking up unhappy, that's not okay. And most of us, so I had a physical bottom that way. A lot of people come to my clinic with IBS and migraines. I mean, we just don't listen to our bodies. We think. This is what I am supposed to do and our bodies are screaming at us. I'm depressed. I'm anxious. My tummy hurts. My head hurts. Guess what that means? You need major change and you deserve The time to take it. If you had a kid who felt that way, you would do anything within your power. I don't care how many hours a week you had to dedicate to it. No matter how busy your schedule was, you would find time. This is your one life to live at least as much as we remember anyway, you [deserve to enjoy it. So work hard for that. Start right now, right now, as you're listening to this, close your eyes. Unless you're driving and make a conscious decision to look inward and start cultivating happiness for yourself.

Jessica Hornstein: I mean, I asked the question, a lot of my guests because it is so interesting, just what. What is that some, some little internal thing , or, maybe it's external, maybe it's a support system, I don't know, but, why some people overcome, these things and, and get to the other side and, Some just can't and it doesn't necessarily have to do with, with levels of trauma or any of these things. So I'm always curious about that. So what would you recommend? I mean, you said people make a promise to themselves to really start, start now. What's, start with what's the first step somebody could do right now. I want to get into the broader, what you would do with somebody at your clinic and all of that, but, what would be one small thing somebody could do right away?

Laura Rhodes-Levin: One small thing. And this is not going to answer the question the way you want it to, but it's to realize this is rewriting the, the script. And it's it's why I wrote the book and why I have exercises in my book because so many people at my center, I've seen them come in with their lights out and their lives just change their eyes light up they're alive again. And people will say, Oh, would you, you should open one in, in New York. You should open one in Florida. You should open one in Brentwood. And I'm like, that would just take all my sunshine and just like not be practicing what I'm preaching. But I thought if I could get it out there in a book, then people can have these little exercises.

Many people don't like to write, but you know, if you write down what's, what's draining your battery and , what fills you up, there needs to be a balance there. And if there's things that are not filling you up, one thing to do, which is a little weird is to write down five things, five alternate careers that you would've liked to have had, and then find something fun to do in that. You know, so if you wanted to be a painter, go spend a couple of hours at Color Me Mind, once a month start incorporating play. We forgot how to play and recreate, recreation. That's the same word. Recreation is recreating. One way that I actually started on the journey was I was on vacation in Hawaii and the person I was sharing a room with was sleeping late and I was waking up early. And so every morning I would get a cup of coffee and I would shuffle out to the Jacuzzi and I thought, Oh God, if I could just spend every day like this and then it hit me, I can. There was a jacuzzi in my building. So I started getting up earlier before I had to go to work and I actually put a coffee maker in my bedroom, like, like you have at the hotel, like right there at the bathroom with all the little pods. And I got a mini fridge for my cream and I would just wake up, get a cup of coffee, get back in bed, either, you know, do a crossword puzzle or whatever, and then shuffle out to the jacuzzi. And it made such a difference in my [day. So think about how you would be on vacation and incorporate that into your life starting today. Okay. 

Jessica Hornstein: First of all, I just have to say, I think you're a genius. You made your room into a hotel room. And I'm wondering why I've never thought of that. Yeah, I think it's so important what you're saying because I think so many people have just completely lost touch with, um, if you ask them what, what lights you up, they can't even make that list. What would I even want to be doing? It's so that's just so off their radar, right, so sometimes it's a, it's a real process of, of rediscovery, having a sort of poke around at that to even find ideas to even try. To test it out, to see, do I like this? Do I not like this? 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: Yeah. And , if you think of life as a buffet and you've been having the chicken like for 10 years, maybe the jello looks interesting and you taste it and you're like, Oh my God, that was horrible. I'm going back to chicken. No, go to a different dish. Try something else. You'll find stuff that you like. So it doesn't have to be a a home run every single time. and understanding so much of life is, are the micro joys. I mean, when you look at animals, they're just happy to like lay in a warm spot, go for a walk, it doesn't have to be, we're going to Disneyland, just finding the little things that bring you comfort, comfort and peace, you deserve it. 

, 

Jessica Hornstein: So what, like, can you tell us more about what kinds of things in your practice, what sort of the broader scope of, approaches and tools are that you might use to help people with anxiety and really get into their truth, 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: So the clinic that I run for both the charity and for the for profit people come usually nine to 30 hours a week. So these are people with severe anxiety, depression, trauma, and sadly, This is the place people have to get to, to make a change. So even though I think I'm a good therapist and all of my therapists are good, and I say this on every single podcast, but we're basically animals. And if your dog is freaked out, you're not going to say, What triggered you fluffy? Let's talk about it, right? You're going to soothe that animal. And this is going back to the beginning of the podcast where we're talking about coming to your senses. So at my center, We do a lot of aromatherapy, music therapy, art therapy, movement, intention setting, and of course we do regular therapy, group therapy, and I do a lot of work with neurofeedback and PEMF, which is the technological part about working with your body.

But when people are anxious and depressed, they want to think their way out of it, and that's like scratching your head to itch your foot. The feelings are in that amygdala, in that limbic system, and we're not taught how to self soothe. And so, when you engage at least three of your senses, Or even two. But if you find something to stare at and then smell something really good and listen to something, it's very likely that the part that's thinking is its way in the background. And that's why people love Hawaii. All you have to do is walk off the plane and it smells good and it looks beautiful and you can hear the surf and the ukulele and. That's all your body really needs. It needs to learn how to soothe itself. So I always encourage people to make a room in their house or even a space where they can just go do a puzzle. Or paint something or watch TV or just whatever it is and that's why we try different things at the center.

There's a lot of people that say, Oh, music therapy. Uh, I'm not a musician. It's not about that. It's about taking a drum. And when you're angry with your boss, just going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he was like, you just get it out. And you're like, huh. I feel so much better instead of walking around going the fucking son of a bitch eat your peas, you know, and just taking it out on everybody else. That's just energy that needs to go someplace. So really what the treatment of anxiety and depression are about is the Soothing, what feels good, making time for it. And then it's, it's really amazing how that changes everything. And then you can talk about your problems. Then you're in a calm, clear place where you can be like cognitive. But when you're like, I hate him, I hate him so much here. You're not clear thinking there. It's like, okay, we can't change him, but we can change you. How and how you handle him. You can be okay, no matter what, no matter what, 

Jessica Hornstein: Right, right. Or even, just what kinds of decisions you might want to make in the situation, right? Because sometimes it's not figuring out how to tolerate a situation better. Sometimes it's like, I need to remove myself from a situation or right. Yeah, absolutely. And we have a few minutes left, can you share more about Phew?

Laura Rhodes-Levin: At my clinic we take insurance and quite often insurance doesn't pay enough or What happens more often than not is people don't have the insurance to get taken care of, and they're really struggling. They've had trauma. They've had abuse. The charity was started because there was a patient I had who was very well off, and he actually commuted two hours every day.I mean, three times a week to come to the center. With a full time job and he was able to work through all of his abuse. He felt like his life was changed but before that happened, his insurance cut him off because insurance is like, well, you've had 30 days, so you should be better from 40 years of trauma by now. And so he had a cash pay and he felt very fortunate that he could do that. So he came and he said, what if I I'm having a fundraiser, if I could raise 12,000, I want to pay it forward. I want to, I want to help someone who couldn't help themselves. And he ended up raising 75,000. And so he said, but I can only give it to a nonprofit and I felt like it was the universe's way of saying you are meant to help more people and you didn't think of it on your own.

So here we go. So I started Phew. We’re a 501 C3 registered nonprofit and now people who are really suffering, who can't get treatment, get treatment. Okay. And those who get kicked out too early don't have to just,  you know, take the few tools they have and leave. They get to really take the full time to heal themselves. And we're talking about people who are on the verge of committing suicide. We're talking about people who just feel they, they cannot cope anymore. They don't know how to be with their families or you see a lot of. Families together where people come in and they're like, fix my kid. They're suicidal. They're this, they're that. And it's like, well, this person didn't happen in a vacuum. Let's, let's look at the whole system. And then you see entire families getting better. I mean, it's just, we meet every week in our, in our staff meeting and we, we laugh and we cry. We're like, oh my God, can you believe they hugged each other? I mean, it's. These are the important things. This is the environment you live in. And if it's toxic, that's what you're spreading. So anyone who chooses to donate, if they went to phewmentalhealth.org, and that's P H E W pathways for health and emotional wellbeing, but it's really like Phew. We do need the funds. Anything you give is so helpful and you can literally know. I know with a lot of charities, you don't know where it's going. Every single penny goes to the treatment of the people that we support. 

Jessica Hornstein: Well, that's beautiful both what he did and what you did with, with that opportunity. That's really important. So, thank you for all that good work you're doing in the world. Thank you for sharing that website. Is there also, if people would like to find out more about working with you, I'm sure that this will resonate with so many people. So, how can they find out more about you and your work? 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: So the best way to find me either the book or the clinic, I thought the missing piece was so clever P E A C E, but it often wants to change it to the missing piece P I E. So if you put in Laura. Rhodes-Levin, and that's R H O D E S hyphen Levin, L E V I N, you should be able to find everything. 

Jessica Hornstein: Great. Okay. And I'll, it'll all be in the show notes as well. So people can, can find all your information there. 

Laura Rhodes-Levin: And I just want to thank you for what you do, because letting people know they're not crazy and, and crazy, I think in a lot, used properly. I'm so happy to be a little crazy. I wouldn't want to be sane in this world, but, um, knowing that someone hears you, that you're, you're not crazy. We're just people and everyone who's listening and everyone who you've helped. Thank you for being a healer in your way. Thank you. 

Jessica Hornstein: It's been such a joy to talk to you today. I’m delighted that you joined me and.

Laura Rhodes-Levin: We will speak again soon, I'm sure. Move to LA, then we can hang out. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. Thank you, Laura. Thank you.