Following the Trail to Your Truth with Dr. Tom Garcia

• How we can quiet the ego’s loud, judgmental voice and listen to our gentler voice of intuition and spirit for guidance.
• Find out the three most important questions you can ask yourself and how to get to meaningful answers.
• Why we may be resistant to discovering our true selves and how to move past the fears into more authentic lives.
• Understand the concept of surrender as a pathway to growth, not a sign of weakness or defeat.

Dr. Tom Garcia is a shaman, psychedelic guide, and integration coach. He helps those who find their way to his inner circle to resolve internal conflict and refocus on what they value most to create a breakthrough in self awareness and deep purpose. Dr. Garcia bridges ancient shamanic practices with universal laws and spiritual truths.

Through writing, teaching, ceremony, the sacred use of plant medicine, and personal coaching, he shares a perspective found in spiritual traditions, Indigenous practices, quantum physics, and matters of the heart. In so doing, he addresses the need for deep healing, which is so crucial in our culture today.

On a path that is both practical and spiritual, his guidance leads you to peace and well-being and a powerful transformation that will touch every area of your life and relationships.

Dr. Garcia's website: drtomgarcia.com

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Website: https://www.jessicahornstein.com

*Music by Sam Murphy*
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Transcript

Following the Trail to Your Truth with Dr. Tom Garcia

Jessica Hornstein: Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the No Not Crazy podcast. I am delighted to be here today with Dr. Tom Garcia. Hi, Tom. Welcome. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Hi, Jessica. Thank you. 

Jessica Hornstein: Really excited for this conversation with you. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Me too. 

Jessica Hornstein: Dr. Tom Garcia is a shaman, psychedelic guide, and integration coach. He helps those who find their way to his inner circle to resolve internal conflict and refocus on what they value most to create a breakthrough in self-awareness and deep purpose. Dr. Garcia bridges ancient shamanic practices with universal laws and spiritual truths.

Through writing, teaching, ceremony, the sacred use of plant medicine, and personal coaching, he shares a perspective found in spiritual traditions, indigenous practices, quantum physics, and matters of the heart. And in so doing, he addresses the need for deep healing, which is so crucial in our culture today.

On a path that is both practical and spiritual, his guidance leads you to peace and well-being and a powerful transformation that will touch every area of your life. of your life and relationships. It's a, it's a big, it's a big promise, but knowing you, I, I know you deliver on that. It's very funny.

Tom Garcia, DC: Even as I listened to you saying that I'm like, yeah, yes. Yep. That's true. That absolutely happens. You know, like that. Yeah. I feel good about that. 

Jessica Hornstein: Well, I think it'll be, it's clear to me and it'll be very clear to anybody listening that, you know, within a few minutes, it's very clear how much, wisdom you hold and, and how valuable that is and how I think it's very easy to feel it in your presence. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Well, thank you. 

Jessica Hornstein: So I was wondering if we could start with something in your personal experience. And if you've had an experience in your life when you felt, Either that something wasn't right or you struggled to make sense of something and maybe you were getting external messaging whether you realized it or not, but in hindsight, maybe you've realized it, you know, something that just made you sort of wonder, like, “Am I crazy? Is this me?  What is going on here?” 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah, so that's, that's a great question. Um, it's probably useful to, to just mention that I was a chiropractor for over 30 years. And, even while I was in practice, you know, chiropractic is a great profession. The men and women who enter into that profession come from a place of heart and contribution and wanting to serve humanity.

And that certainly was true for me. Um, yet even during those years and especially about midway through my, my practice years, I just felt there was something else calling me. And I didn't know what truly I didn't know what it was what it was or how it would manifest. And it showed up in my journaling in my writing you know I've been I've kept a journal since I was 15 years old so for over 50 years, I've maintained a regular journal practice. And I would recommend that to anybody on a spiritual path. And so there was that period of time where I just knew something was in the field for me that I couldn't quite get to, you know, it was like, yeah, like reaching for something that was just out of my reach and, um, as, you know, as I tell this particular part of my story, it was with the death of a very dear friend of mine who spent the last 18 months of his life in our home.

That was the, the crucible moment. It was a turning point for me. And, um, and that's when I, uh, I started going to the woods and making fire and the ceremony came through me and a voice came to me. And I also started working with plant medicine as a, as a sacred ally, as a sacred tool. And it just opened me. It opened my mind. It opened my heart. It led me into a whole other arena of work and, um, contribution in, in my, in my interactions with people that is what I do today, which is, as you said, in my bio, I'm a psychedelic guide and integration coach. I work shamanically. So ,for me, that has a very specific meaning.

And it's a very practical down to earth approach practice. So, that's what led me to what I'm doing now. It's like something, you know, it's like that some, there was something else, something more, which is so common for people. I find it as a recurring theme and I don't know what it is and I don't know how I'm going to get to it.

But all I know is I feel myself being called by something. And that's how it was for me. And so that's, [that's where I meet people. And I engage them at that level of theiryou've been called, now what? Help them to find out what that is. 

Jessica Hornstein: Right. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah. 

Jessica Hornstein: How did you find out? For yourself, I mean, how did you know, like you felt that something's missing or, there's something more, to know, “Oh, I should go into the woods or I should start working with fire” or, you know, like those might be random things for somebody else, right? But for you, you, somehow honed in on those. How did you know that those were the right things for you? 

Tom Garcia, DC: That's funny. That's great. It wasn't like they're just laying around like, “Oh, you know, I think I'll make a fire and say some prayers and invite people,” you know, it's like, it wasn't like that at all.

And, um, going back, going back a few years, about 20 over just over 20 years ago, I went through a men's weekend. It was with the Mankind Project and the weekend itself was called the new warrior training adventure, and it completely. busted open my world before my world got busted open again, you know, and, um, there was ceremony, there was sage and fire and sweat lodge and all these things that I, that I hadn't experienced in quite that way, all came together.

It was like, it woke something up in me really big. And I was involved with men's work for many years and saw it make a Difference it made a difference in my life in the in the lives of other men So there was something in there that was very earthy and ceremonial and native, you know Like tribal primal like that.

It really it stirred my stirred something in me now. That's as a man Um, but I also I work with a lot of women and it's the same thing for women. They have, they have that also, you know, in terms of their, their draw to the sacred feminine within themselves. So that was, that was one of the big pivotal moments.

And um, and it was, and again, with the passing of my friend, something, something just awoke in me. I started going to the woods. Early in the morning before sunrise and in the evening at sunset. And at first, I didn't make a fire. I would just lay out an altar, like a blanket and some things that I brought from home and sage and sweetgrass and tobacco.

I just like taught myself how to use these things. And then I started making a fire. And it seemed like the next right thing and fire is primal, it's, it's ancient, ancient, you know, for thousands of years, people have been coming to the fire, you know, your ancestors and mine have been gathering around fires for, for eons.

So there was something in there with that, that felt very connected and fire being such a dynamic, transformative element. And so it was just a practice. It was my own practice. It was personal. It was intimate. It was deep, and I was connecting. Here's the thing, too. When my, when my friend passed away, there, I experienced grief.

There was grief, but it wasn't just the grief of his passing. There was a deeper grief, and I came to realize this, that it was the, the, the loss of my sense of connection to something inside myself, that sacred connection to spirit, to self with a capital S, you know, like that, my higher self.

And I, I'd been moving along those lines for many years, but still there was some deeper connection that I had not yet made. That I was longing for. And so that, that's what was moving me. That's what it felt like the call was—the call back to source, the call back to that connection that's internal. We often think of it as like outside of us or in the sky, you know, like that God, great spirit, but it's really, it's, it's within us like that. And to connect with that deep, intimate, personal connection with my own spirit. 

It connects me to everything, which connects me to you and everyone. You know, it's, it's that energy that permeates everything. That's what I wanted. That's what I found. 

Jessica Hornstein: Was there something about was it because his death was such a big event for you or because maybe it was the, I don't know if it was the first time you had sort of experienced that process? Of someone's passing, like, so intimately, right? If you were with him for all those last months. Was there something about that, is that what reminded you of the sacred, you know, that experience of that? 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah. That's a great question. Um, because for me, I had a, I had a closeup view. I had a window.

This is a man I loved. We were like brothers and watching him withdraw from life and being terrified of dying and watching his body. Decline and diminish and deteriorate and to be with him, you know, I showered him every day and my wife helped feed him when he couldn't feed himself anymore.

Um, it was, it was such a, an incredible experience and, and all the while I, I'd been, I, I had been using, you know, sage and tobacco and these kinds of things. In his process, so when he passed, I'll just tell you this, uh, my wife and another woman washed him, wrapped him in white linen, draped his body in sarongs, and I laid marigolds and sweetgrass and sage on, on his body.

We kept him for three days. We put him on. Packed rice around his body. It was just like this like where this came from. It was I don't know. We just created this and so all of that was part of the experience of something deeply sacred anybody who's been with Anyone in their last days and at their passing and at the moment they cross knows it's a it's a sacred privilege It's an honor to be with someone at that moment of their passing.

So there was a that, and what I also want to say is, what I know for many people, there's usually some kind of cataclysmic event, something big that, that shakes them loose, that knocks them out of their comfort zone of their ordinary reality and upends their world, know, the death of a loved one, divorce, the loss of a job, maybe, maybe public humiliation or something really has a deep effect on them that, that shakes up their world in such a way that they're not sure what's real. And, and not only that, they're even more like, you know, who am I in the, in this, in the matter of my own life. And that's, that was an important, there were three important questions that came to me at the fire after my friend passed.

And I'm now I'm engaged in this ceremony. I'm working with plant medicine. I'm going to the fire, night and day, you know, as a practice with and without plant medicine. So that was just, that was just part of the, part of the journey, three questions.

That came alive for me at the fire was, who am I, why am I here, and who sent me? And those are perennial questions, they're personal questions, they're intimate, and you can ask them at any point in your life and get a different answer as you go deeper and deeper into the, the profundity, and to really ask with all your heart, it's very humbling, you know, to know, to be, to really want to know who am I in the matter of this life? There's all the trappings of identity all around us, but you take those away. Who am I really? Cause sometimes, you know, we're so caught up in our identity as a persona that we really don't know.

And odd as it may sound in my work with people, what I have discovered is there is a fear of knowing who they really are. It's kind of a paradox, isn't it? Because I discovered this, um, in one interaction in particular that I'm thinking of. And my question was, what are you afraid of? And the answer was, I'm afraid to know who I am.

And it took me aback. I'm like, ah, but that's a true answer. That is a true answer. I get it. And why? The answer was, I'm afraid to know who I am. And I got it.

It was like, that is a true answer. Really, I even said, that's a true answer. Okay. Now why? And the answer then was, because everything I built was built on this, this identity, this facade. And, What does that mean for, for my life? You know, if I really look at that and realize there's someone else in here, something else that's more authentic, more true.

So yeah, it's a paradox. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Well, because yes, then what needs to change? You know, do you just take the whole deck of cards and, you know. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah. You know, you might say, do I walk away from my relationship? Do I leave my family? Do I abandon my job, my work, et cetera. That might come up for some people for sure.

My, my recommendation is always don't make any rash decisions or reactive kinds of things. Just take it one step at a time. Yes. You don't have to blow up your life. 

Jessica Hornstein: No, no, no, you don't. And I like, you know, one thing that struck me, in what you were saying a little bit earlier about your process was that you said you sort of, okay, you started, working with this and then, oh, you went out to the wood, you know, it sort of evolved like, Oh, this feels right now. Oh, wait, now that feels right. Hmm. And it just sort of organically seemed to keep coming to you in little, little pieces, right? 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah. That's really great what you're saying. My experience is that when we ask sincerely, when we ask genuinely for the answers to our questions. The riddle of our lives, the I want to know who I am and I want to know who you are, , you with a capital Y, the answers come and they come for each of us in a way that's unique to each of us in a way that we can understand and symbols we recognize in a language that we're familiar with.

And so that's how it occurred for me and it, and it comes piecemeal, you know, when you see a sign, take it, there's always this like, was that a sign? Was that? I don't know. And you take it just that was a sign. Take it. And all these signs together start to coalesce into a form that's like, Oh, now I see what's happening here and that was very true for me. There were moments of deep self-doubt, and like, is this really, am I really hearing what I think I'm hearing? This clear voice that speaks to me through my journal, and that gives me, like, really clear wisdom and clear guidance. And when I follow it, things always work out, and when I don't, things are more difficult, you know, like that.

And this piece about, what you said about it coming a little bit at a time, piecemeal, um, I think that's an important process. It's like things come in we start to incorporate them into the life The life that we are living and so take for example The ceremonial thing the ceremony didn't drop in like all at once.

Everything was all there. It's like no first. I'm using I'm using feathers, and then I'm using the sage, and then together, and then tobacco makes a lot of sense to use as an offering, as a blessing. And the fire, and the fire was first, it was just a few rocks and a little fire, and then it was bigger, and now I have this massive fire pit that I work at, and there's all these elements that I lay out, you know, deer antlers, and herbs, and oil, and all these things.

And what I'll also say to anybody who's with me at the fire is, um, We could scrape the earth clean of all of this, all my shaman swag, the fire itself, and there's just you and me, and that's all that we need. Just you and me and our connection, our vertical connection, grounded in the earth, you know, up to the sky.That's it. There, everything else is just symbolic. 

You know, so I want to, I want to add, I want to add something else too. This notion of being vertically connected, grounded in the earth, connected to spirit, , the vertical plane. Being connected in the vertical plane stabilizes the horizontal plane.

The middle world, the everyday world, the world where the ego is alive and well, you know, paying your bills, going to work, driving a car, cooking food, interacting with people. But without that vertical connection, the horizontal plane is inherently unstable. And we don't have to look very far to see that in our world.

The ego run amok. in our government, in our communities on the street. So, it's your job and mine to stay connected. 

That's really my message to people. If you don't hear anything else from me, from us, from this interaction, stay connected. Establish, cultivate, nourish, nurture that connection. That's the most important thing.

Jessica Hornstein: You said something about if we're asking ourselves, questions genuinely, then we will get the answers we need. I think a lot of the time, very well meaning we ask ourselves, we think we're asking ourselves the questions, we think we're doing the work, you know, the internal work, we're trying to connect, we're trying to, clear, clear that space. But it's not quite coming together, right? And I think, I think we're so used to thinking in certain ways or, presenting in certain ways, right? That even when we, we think we're being genuine, we may not be, you know, we're not being as genuine as we think we're being. So, so how do we really, you know, drill in and, and really ask those questions, , as openheartedly and as genuinely as we can, and, and how do we prepare ourselves maybe for those answers that come, that may come. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah, that's, that's great what you're saying. That is the work. That is the work, and it takes everything. We have been so conditioned from the moment of our birth, domesticated, delivered a distortion of reality about who we are, about how the world is, about how other people are. Um, it's, it's overwhelmingly oppressive.

For some people, it, incites a level of anxiety and depression and dysfunction, you know, personal dysfunction that they can hardly overcome. That's the world and it's, it sounds very negative what I'm saying, but let's just be honest about what we're up against. . so that is the work, to discern what's, what's real from what's false. To, to discern the voice of my ego from the voice of my higher self, my higher mind, spirit, the Holy Spirit, Source, speaking to me. In its way, like, you know, in the Bible it says the still small voice, well it's still the still small voice.

The ego is loud and raucous and, judgmental, self-condemning, it attacks other, attacks us and it attacks others. It doesn't feel good, that's one way you know. Whereas the spirit in us, our higher selves, the voice is gentler. And it actually feels good if we can give ourselves pause to listen for it.

So the capacity or the ability to listen with our ears, with our feeling sense, our intuition is something that we want to reconnect with because we've been separated from our intuition. It's not real. It's all, you know, all those things that science and medicine and the logical mind would judge as invalid or not as reliable as.

the science or the ego's presentation of things. So you see what I'm saying? It's that is the work is to discern and listen for what's real and true. 

Jessica Hornstein: Is it the ego? Do you feel that that's where most of the fear emanates from is that ego voice telling us, you know even even when we feel sort of pulled maybe to make changes and have that fear about what will that mean for our life? Is that us, coming up against the ego going like “No, you don't want to change your life. You keep doing it the way you've been doing it, the way you've been told, um, try to keep fitting in” or whatever it is? 

Tom Garcia, DC: That's exactly it. That's it. The ego is fear based. Now, the ego has the job of protecting us, it has the job of keeping us safe, it has the job of getting us to point A to point B, like that in the world, and then there's the spirit within us, and to, to, so again, you don't have to look very far to see the, the, the overdevelopment of the ego, if you will, in relation to the spirit in our, in our own lives, as well as in the world, and , so to bring the ego in service to the spirit in proper proportion, it's you know, cause you don't want to annihilate your ego.

You don't want to get rid of it. It's just out of control. It's like a two-year-old with a, with an espresso and a tambourine and a kitten, you know, it's, it's going to wreak havoc in the spaces that it inhabits. And, you know, look, look at the world, you've got the world run by men who are mostly men.That are like overdeveloped egos or boys in men's bodies. Sometimes you could say. You don't want to get into politics. So that's no fun. 

Jessica Hornstein: Well, and even without politics, I mean, just in cultures and, whatever it is, um, environments we find ourselves in, and that could be the, the micro or the macro, I mean, it could be within your family or the society at large. But, you know, all this. stuff goes on and we're told we should be okay with it a lot of the time, which really just adds insult to injury, right? Because then, we're struggling to try to figure out what's wrong with us. Why, why doesn't this feel okay to me—this, this world around me or this situation I'm in? Or, or whatever it is. And, and the fact is, is it shouldn't feel okay. It's a lot of, it's really madness, you know?  

Tom Garcia, DC: Yeah, exactly. It doesn't feel, it doesn't, it doesn't feel okay. Cause it's not okay. There's nothing wrong with you. You're actually sensing correctly that it's not okay. Look at our younger generations.You know, we have kids in our twenties and thirties. Who are in their twenties and thirties. And these, these generations that are coming, like I'm seven decades into my life and I'm looking back at these other generations coming in and going, Oh wow, they're experiencing the, the, the distortion field and going, this doesn't feel right. I don't feel right. I'm not okay. What's wrong with me? And like, what I say is there's nothing wrong with you. And what we, what, what my coaching is to most. people that I work with and those that I don't is withdraw your attention from what the media shows us. Withdraw your attention from the distortion in the world and, and go more inward for that sense of connected rightness, if you will. Connection that feels right internally. And that's worked because we have been, we have been cleaved from that for, for all of our lives, separated from that. So we, we, it's really a return to the truth of who we are. It's not so much discovering who we are. It's a memory that we, we come back to of who we really are and our truth and our deepest connection. But it's personal and intimate. So never am, am I prescriptive as to. What that connection should look like, or who or what you're connected to, it's like what do you call it? How do you describe it? Not what you've been taught. told or given, ask yourself what that is for you, you know, that's really important. And then you start to see the world differently. You start to see through eyes with more clarity, you know, you, you and I have been at this for decades and then there's younger people that have only one or two decades or three. It's like, it takes time. It takes work.It takes guidance. 

It's important for us as elders to be able to go back to younger generations and say, let me help you. Let me just, I'm not going to foist new information upon you, another philosophy, another theology, another construct of psychology or anything like that. , and that's the essence of my work, really. Let's clear the deck, come in, let's just get quiet. Let your nervous system relax and then we go to the fire. And that's what, that's without medicine, we just go to the fire and sit together and get reacquainted and really feel into what's authentic and what's real and true. And the truth starts to emerge, you know, the beauty, the truth of our beauty, the truth of our struggle, then with the, with the support and the aid of, of sacred medicine in a, in a ceremonial way, a ceremonial practice and a ceremonial setting, we use the medicine to help us see more clearly and get in touch with what's real. Right. So a conversation about that during, you know, during and after to integrate and anchor and ground the insights and those flashes of knowing, so that they don't just dissipate into thin air and then they're forgotten. 

Jessica Hornstein: This is a ridiculous question in some ways, but I'll ask it anyway. What do you think it is that, either within yourself that enabled you to sort of have that presence of mind to go from here to there and really have that transformation or what do you see in the people you work with, that really enables growth and maybe in some more than others, right? Do you see any, commonalities or if there's something like either an approach they all take or something about some characteristic inside them that enables them to really overcome all that conditioning and everything else when, when, you know, so many people in the world, maybe most people in the world really never do in their lifetimes. 

Tom Garcia, DC: So going back to the first part of your question, was there something in me? It's like, I've wondered about that because it seemed like even from when I was a teenager, I had a particular orientation. I was more introspective. It was, it was out of a traumatic experience of my own that set me to journaling.

I know a lot of people journal and a lot of young people keep a journal. I think in this, the, just the trauma of everyday life, keeping a journal is a good practice, but I was driven to it, and it was like that was my first experience with something deeper within, like my own internal voice, but I didn't really know it as that then. And in my work with people, I see many themes like just recurring themes and there's a struggle. There's an internal struggle. It's like we said at the outset, there's something not right. There's something, there's something else, something more. And I think the people that can get like clear, get come out of the, out of the density of the weeds, you know, and come out and go, There's something more and I'm going to find it. I want to know what it is. I don't know where to look, but, and then my name might come up in their search. Somebody else's name might come up in their search, a book, a workshop, a seminar like that. And they're like, I'm just on the path now by the time people find their way to me, I know they've been on the path, whether it's through a, an email or a phone call. Isay to them, there is no accident. You found me. There is no accident when we're at the fire that you're at the fire with me right now in this fire. There's no way you could find this by accident. Your spirit brought you here. The greater part of you guided you here because it knows what you need.

And that's why you're here. One of the first things that comes up that people have the most difficulty with is surrender. It's for some people, it's like giving up, it's, I don't know, compromise, it's being on the deck of the USS Missouri when the Japanese surrendered to the U. S. and the war was over and they were the losers, it's, it's being a loser.

That is not what surrender is. It's the willingness to say, I don't know, and I need help. It's the willingness to just look and realize, I don't have the control I think I have. In fact, I think my life is out of control. And again, I need help. And to have the courage to ask for it, and then who or what are you asking? 

So that's another part of it. Who or what do you, where do you turn? Who do you go to? Who do you seek out? And then trusting, trusting the way that opens. So there's, as near as I can reckon, there's something internal for people. It's like a, like a homing pigeon finding its way home. There's a little speck of something, some magnetic material in the pituitary gland that guides people to what's real and true for them. It guides them home. It guides them peace and to safety. 

So when they find their way to me, they're literally coming into a place of peace and safety, the circle of the fire, my home. it's a home, but you know, it's a temple. People come in and go, okay, I think I'm going to be okay. And I'm like, you, you are going to be okay. I don't think there's anything wrong with anybody. When I'm sitting knee to knee with someone, I'll have, I have to tell them there's nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you. You just believed something about yourself that wasn't true, and we're here to get, get to the truth of who you are so you can see you're beautiful, you're strong, you're clear, you're a divine being, you know, and it's not a, it's not a bunch of woo. It's like you're a divine being. Let's go to the fire and get you on the earth. And have you feel the experience of being in nature and being connected and feeling like you belong. You know, you belong and I'm here to tell them that I'm here to tell you that I'm here to like sit with you and go, look, I can help you find your way. And then, there's bushwhacking that you're going to have to do because it's not my way. It's your way. 

Jessica Hornstein: That's so powerful. I mean, I just felt that now you saying that, , I could feel that. And I think we don't hear that. Very much in our lives, most of us, , we don't, we don't have somebody who turns to us and says, there's nothing wrong with you. And , you're this amazing being and you're powerful. Who hears that, you know, a lucky handful maybe. But in general, we really don't hear that you belong, all those things. And I think just even that as a starting place can have such an impact. It's incredible, right? 

Tom Garcia, DC: It's true. I know exactly what you're saying. You know, I'm like, I'm like a brother. I'm a father. I'm a grandfather. I am, I am all those things. I'm a husband. I'm a member of a community. I'm part of a community. And when people don't have that, or they don't have that in, in a strong, like, integrated sense, you know, to be with me and to have, and to have me, in effect, get in your face and tell you there's nothing wrong with you. You're okay. You're enough just as you are and when things are off to call them out on it, it's important for people to have somewhere or someone they can go to that they know they're not going to mince words or not going to hold punches or not going to like sugarcoat anything. And I don't sugarcoat anything when it gets real like that. It's necessary. It's a wake up call. It's like, come on, snap out of it now. your life is at stake. relationship is at stake. And so to watch people snap awake. And go, you know, like, Oh my God, you mean I was doing that?It was me? It's like, yeah, the program has been running. The program has been doing it. You want to snap out of the program and wake up. There's a program running, but it's not who you are. 

Jessica Hornstein: Right. Blue pill or red pill. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Yes. It's very much like that. And, when. When I'm working with someone and we're at the fire together and we're working with plant medicine, I know they did not come here to have me let them off the hook. So I say, I'm not letting you off the hook. You did not come here for that. If I need to say that, and it's, it's a little different for everyone. And everyone has a different something orientation, but there are themes. There are themes. And one of them is they're answering a call and they're reaching for something and they don't know what that is. And they're not sure they really, they don't know who they are. So to help them to. Remember, it's like, wake up, you know, like shaking gently, asleep, you've been, you've been having nightmares. It's okay. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, the fact that you clearly do this in such a, a container. You create a container that's safe and loving, and there's such a warmth there. I'm sure you convey, you know, such a belief in their ability to transform their lives, That that's why then you can, like poke them when you need to, and that sort of thing, right? 

Tom Garcia, DC: Exactly true. Here you go. Safe container. It's a safe container. And they know I love them. You have to know that I love you. To go this deep and to hit on these issues, trauma, Well, trauma. We've all been traumatized. You know, we've kind of psychologized, our languages become psychologized with trauma and process and my needs and such like that. It, it, it's just what's happened. And it's true. I had varying degrees of trauma. Just being born into this world is traumatic. My kids who had a great life and a great upbringing were traumatized by that some way, you know, and, and, you know, people have had it a lot worse, you know, and to help them break out, it's like , the caterpillar becoming the chrysalis and the butterfly emerging. It's like everything, not butterfly has to go, and the, and the work must continue. I like to add joyous work.

It's joyous work to wake up and to be, feel a sense of connection and, oh, there, my anxieties, my anxiety is up. My fear is up. Got it. That's not who I am, but there they are. Okay. Let me Okay. So a morning practice. Is really critical, you know, I mean, I get super practical and super like, uh, granular, like, for example, I, I was working with someone this weekend who was alcoholic drinking heavily. And first it wasn't clear, but then [it's like, as we're talking, I'm like, We're dealing with alcoholism here, which is particularly pernicious and, you know, like it's got its claws in and it's not gonna let go and it can go on for decades. And so I did some work with him, and at the end of it, I put my hand on his shoulder and I said, now, you have an obligation every single day to spend time with a morning practice, to say, to, to create your own prayer that connects you, that gives you, that's, that you feel connected, to read inspirational material. To write your mind. It's a practice. It's a practice of dedication. It's a discipline. It's a devotion.You cannot skip. You are at risk. You are at great risk. This was, these were my words to him. You are at great risk. So you cannot afford to skip. To fool around with this. So you have to do your part. You know, it's like that for each of us, we have to do our part. We have to participate in our own rescue. It's not enough to come here anywhere and expect somebody else to save us. They can help us, but we have to save ourselves because no one's coming to save us, contrary to popular belief, you know, no one coming. 

Jessica Hornstein: So you have somebody who's in that place and they, you know, they're just starting to realize like, oh, I've been sort of in this nightmarish dream state and I, I need to really make some changes in a significant, consistent, honest, real way. So, I know there's certain things you would do with them when they're with you. And maybe you can share a little bit more about those kinds of things when you actually have them there in front of you, just to sort of break through that more. I'm also wondering though, when they leave, I mean, you just spoke to a morning practice and obviously that's something that that client would go off and do after leaving you, what other steps would you recommend to people?

Because you go on a retreat or you listen to somebody speak, and you may have these flashes, the veil may open for a moment, but then, you're back in your, annoying life or whatever it is, right? And people are bothering you and this and that, um, and, you know, and you start to forget that truth of who you are that you may have become reconnected to for a moment. How do we keep that connection going? 

Tom Garcia, DC: Question. I love how you're kind of reaching like you're formulating the question as we're having this conversation. So, several things come to mind. One is turn off the news. Stop watching the news.

How do I know what's going on in the world? Stop watching the news. It's, it's curated. It's designed with a particular orientation, and then it's fed to us, you know. So, get off that diet. It's like junk food for the mind. Start filling your head with good stuff. Listening to, to podcasts and such that are inspirational.

Like, stuff like this, having like a real conversation. There's a lot of conversations like this happening that, you know. You know, the, the upside of technology and social media makes available to us. Start reading inspirational books, read every day for 15 or 30 minutes. I always, I give my clients a, a book list of things to read that I feel really strongly about, like read these things.

A couple things right there. Clean up your diet. Like, this is super practical. When, when someone, take my daughter for example, she's in a state, I'm like, how much water have you had today? When's the last time you had a protein meal? What kind of sleep did you get last night? Oh, get good night's sleep, rest well, eat well, get sugar out of your diet, stop eating junk food and processed food, drink plenty of water, stay well hydrated.

It's like, thank you. It's not rocket science. It's basic. It's really basic. Maintain the vessel. Take care of the vessel. And then the mind can function at a higher level. So we're talking about, you know, frequency. Low frequency thoughts are fearful, judgmental, gossip and drama and all that stuff.

Let's like, remove yourself from that and let your frequency ascend. You want to stay high. Because what's available at a higher frequency is not available at a lower frequency. Does that make sense? Like, high frequency thoughts are love and joy and connection and, you know, having goals and vision and like, what I want to do with my life.

And lower frequency thoughts are complaints, self-pity, victimization, shame, judgment. And we all go there, but we have to have ways to get ourselves out. You know, simple practices. And a morning practice is super critical. Like, I wouldn't leave home without it. I don't leave home without, wherever I am, taking care of my morning practice first thing. Reading, listening to good music that, , just quiets my mind, journaling, , things like that. 

So, you know, turn off the news, clean up your diet. Establish a morning practice. Three things right there that are super practical, super doable, and actually essential. If you're drinking, get alcohol out of your life.Occasional drink, no big deal. But if you're having something every night, or several somethings every night, You have to stop. It was with my client this last weekend. Everything he wanted, everything he said he wanted, regarding his family, his relationship, his work, all came back to, first and foremost, you have to stop drinking to have any of those things. 

The other thing, move. Move your body. Walk. If you've been sitting for a long time, you've been in front of a screen, get up and move. Go outside for a walk, exercise, workout. I mean, I do something every single day. Lift weights, run, walk, take my dog out, just get out and move, stretching. You know, for me, stretching is always more of the challenge, so I have to Be more deliberate to get more stretching. And for some, for all of us, it's something, but it's an, it's an imperative. Movement exercise. It's an imperative. Fresh air and sunshine. Oh my God. Get out on the land. I go barefoot when I can and I still am a, I'm still a Tenderfoot, but when I'm around the fire, I take off my shoes in good weather. And I'm flat on the ground. I just watch out for cactus and pokey things. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. It's such an important point you're making because, I mean of course there's so much talk about what we eat and sleep and water and all of that, and I think we often just sort of compartmentalize Yeah. That we need to do those things to be healthy, to hopefully have long lives and not get sick and all of that. So it's such a good point that you're making that it's all. inextricably connected, that, that is going to affect you at an emotional and a spiritual level and, and everything else. I really appreciate you have on your website, I think something like that. The truth is not hidden, it's everywhere to be found, and I really appreciate your deep belief in that, and that, and that we really all can find that within ourselves, it really is in there and we can reconnect to it and we can remember who we really are without all this other stuff. 

Tom Garcia, DC: And I want to add to that, what I share what I talk about is largely from direct experience. It's direct experience that I want. And that's what I wanted from the outset. And that's what I recommend for anyone. Have direct experience of things and just look to see how the conditioning has been working. Okay. I'll stop. 

Jessica Hornstein: I think it's very clear how much wisdom you have from, from what you've all your experiences and your practices and all the people you've worked with., So if people would like to find out more about you, I'm sure many will be inspired. I know I am every time I talk to you, I'm ready to go, do something new and dig, dig even deeper. So where, where can people find out more about you and your work? 

Tom Garcia, DC: You know, the easiest thing would be go to my website, which is drtomgarcia.com. DrTomGarcia, all lowercase, dot com. And there's my contact info there. You can call me, email me, text me, you know, I'm available and, and I'll respond.

And you can see some of my writings, you know, a lot of my writings and other podcasts and interviews and such that, you know, you just know like, oh, this guy's for real. I'm for real. 

Jessica Hornstein: You are for real. That is true. I've known, known you long enough now to know you are the real deal, for sure.

Tom Garcia, DC: It's important to know. It's like, I'm nobody's guru, but I've, you know, what I have to offer is hard won. And it's been, you know, out of diligence and a love for life. 

Jessica Hornstein: And you care. It's very clear how much you care about everybody. 

Tom Garcia, DC: I love people. Yeah. I love the mess of people. We get through the mess to get who they really, to see who they really are.

It's like, I love that experience, you know? 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and everything you shared. I always look forward to our conversations and, I'm sure it'll be really helpful to so many. 

Tom Garcia, DC: Oh, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to share with your audience. I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you. 

Jessica Hornstein: Thank you, Tom.