Embracing Your Sexual Agency with Dr. Juliana Hauser

• Finding your Yeses and Nos: What questions you’ll want to ask yourself to learn more about your sexuality. 
• Why sexuality is the final frontier of human development and essential to the full expression of who you are. 
• How to distinguish between making a compromise for a relationship and making a compromise of your soul. 
• Appreciate the ways that your intimacy with yourself and others is about so much more than sex. 
• The importance of finding or creating a safe space where you can talk about your sexuality. 

Dr. Juliana is a licensed marriage and family therapist and counselor with a PhD in counseling education. For 20 years, she has worked with clients to help them manage relationships, sexuality, confidence, infertility, and more. Her work has been featured on Oprah, the Doctors, the Discovery Channel, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Women's Health, and more. Some of her courses include REVEALED, Be Your Own Sexpert, and The Wanting.

Dr. Juliana's Website:  https://dr-juliana.com/

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Transcript

Jessica Hornstein: Hi everyone. I'm Jessica Hornstein. Welcome to the No, Not Crazy Podcast where we explore the invalidating messages we internalize, their effects on our lives, and the ways we can free ourselves from them. We've all had those experiences that make us question ourselves and even sometimes feel a little crazy.

Let's stop accepting the idea that there is something inherently wrong with us and begin to appreciate that actually there is something fundamentally right. So, join me and together we can all feel a little less crazy.

So, today I am here with Dr. Juliana Hauser. Hi Juliana. It's so great to have you here. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: It feels like we're just picking up where we left off. 

Jessica Hornstein: I know, I know. There's so much we could talk about. Dr. Juliana is a licensed marriage and family therapist and counselor with a PhD in counseling education. For 20 years now, she has worked with clients to help them manage relationships, sexuality, confidence, infertility, and more. Her work has been featured on Oprah, the Doctors, the Discovery Channel, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Women's Health, and more. Some of her courses include, REVEALED, Be Your Own Sexpert, and The Wanting.

I'm just so excited for this conversation. On this podcast, we talk about the external messages that we are all exposed to and that often are very invalidating or at least impose an idea on us of who we are or who we should be.

Mm-hmm. Right. And I think sexuality is certainly an area where, you know, conditioning can really run rampant right in our lives from so many, so many places. and I think, you know, sex, sex and sexuality, I think often we have, you know, people have been exposed to just a very narrow concept of that and may not really know who they truly are.

And then, you know, there's a right way and a wrong way. And, um, that's very suppressive. I'm, I think, to a lot of people and, you know, invalidating of who, who they really are. Mm-hmm. So that's why I'm really happy you're here because I think this fits in so well. yeah, so I mean, you're, you're the sexpert, what do you see in the people that you work with and, and, you know, why did you come to this as such a, such an important topic? 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Hmm. You know, the, um, and thank you for having me on here, and thank you for just stepping into this space because it isn't, sexuality is a space that some people really run away from, and I understand that, but I, I really appreciate those who are like, let's just do it, let's just talk about it. Let's do it. Um, you know what I see, I see a wide variety of people that are coming to me to work individually or just to the topic of sexuality in general for, for different reasons, but some of the common links are that, uh, we all have been given horrible sex education, and so we feel ill-informed in a lot of ways.

And it is not just the anatomy, it's not just the, the logistics that we weren't given, but we weren't given the reason why sexuality is so potent and I mean potent as in something that is so divisive, something that is used in movies and um, in marketing, uh, that it is a, you know, the top, in the top two of why marriages don't work in some science, you know, some studies, it's why is it so important?

We're not taught, why is sexuality so important? And we're not really taught what it is. Hmm. And, and so that's the basics of why people come to me. The details have a whole variety to anywhere from pain to mismatched desire, to "I don't know if I've had an orgasm," to sexual trauma. Um, and then to me, I, I view, um, sexual, sexuality in a holistic way.

So, I really believe that sexuality is the essence of who we are. And so, everything revolves around it, and everything comes back to it. And I ask, I always ask people about their sexual lives, whether they're in a relationship or not, and, and that what I have found is people are really hungry to be asked by who they are as sexual beings and, and they're really wanting a safe space to ask questions, to explore or to see if what they are thinking and doing is quote, normal or common, or how can it be better. Um, and so that's, a lot of the conversations revolve around that.

Jessica Hornstein: It's so interesting because I think so many people think of, you know, sex as the sex act, right? And that's it. And not only is that it, but you know, it's, it's a performance or it's a, it's a race, you know? And, and sometimes I just, I think like, "hey, everybody, like this is not a pass-fail exam." You know, you know, it should not be pass-fail. Um, so, there is, there's such a broad range, right, that I think often is not explored. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm. and, and we're, uh, we're, we're, no one thinks that they have the right sexuality. Mm. And that was something that I've learned over the years too, is that the way that we are exposed to sexuality is, is that there's a right and a wrong and uh, and nobody has a right and everyone has an opinion, and everyone has a come from, and an agenda.

And that's a lot to unpack. Uh, it's confusing and then you'll hear people say, oh, it's wonderful. You should want this. And, and so how do you get from there to here? And that's kind of where my sweet spot is. And I believe that everything is rooted in agency that there is no right or wrong way of, of experiencing your sexuality and your sexual journey, and that you need to learn how to ask your questions and how to discover who you are as a sexual being, to then figure out what you need and what you want, and your yeses and nos, and yucks and yums, and, and then if you decide to partner with anybody, um, or, or ever have sexual connection with other people, then you gotta figure out how to do that alongside somebody else who is hopefully doing the same kind of journey. and some of that just seems magical that it actually ever works and as good, as good and wonderful and exciting and all of that.

And, um, and I love it when people can make that transition too. And I think for me to, to answer your, one of your earlier questions of like, how did I get into this? I'm a pretty unlikely person to, um, to have this be the area of interest. And when people, when I interact with people from my childhood or, or even from college, cause I started off as a kindergarten teacher, they're like, “How did you, what in the world?”

You know, like, “How did that happen?” And, um, and I, and I, well, it's because everyone has sexuality. Everybody does, and I'm curious. I'm probably more curious than a lot of people and more comfortable. I don't know how I got comfortable with sexuality, but I did. And when I saw how, like, when I got comfortable talking about it and exploring and asking questions, then um, it changed a lot in my life.

I, I found agency, I found, I found my, my terms and my life through the lens of sexuality first. and when I figured that out, that changed a lot in my life, and I figured out how to do in other areas. And so that's how I found sexuality to be really important. It wasn't the sex acts, it, it was the holistic sexual being of me. 

Jessica Hornstein: It's hard, right? With, I mean, whether it's sexuality or, or all the other things that I, you know, I talk about on this podcast, but it's very hard when you've been so conditioned, right? That you can't separate out necessarily, you know, it's a lot as you said, you use the word unpack, there's so much to unravel, and you can't even know when, you know, when that's so internalized, right? To to, to parse out what's actually you and what's actually, what you've been told and heard and seen on TV, and, you know, what somebody else wants of you or, so how do you, help people know, like, oh no if I, you know, if I were just out in the wild, you know, who would I be sexually, as opposed to what did I pick up from, from society or my family or my culture? How, how do you begin to separate that out? 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: I mean, it, it's complicated. It is, and it's, and it's not a, an an hour, it doesn't happen in an hour.

It, it is a process that you have to go through. So, sometimes it depends on where they're starting, but I have two kind of big buckets that, that I always go through with my clients, and I did it with my own life too. And one is, it's really similar to decluttering a closet. Mm-hmm. that we look at sexual messaging and, um, what, like different topics.

So what do we think about self-pleasure? What do you think about monogamy? What do you think about, uh, religion and, and sexuality? What do you think about, um, what pleasure is in general? Like, there's a whole list of things that we go through and with each of these topics, I just have my clients start writing down what messages did you receive about this topic? Was self-pleasure— masturbation, but self-pleasure—was it dirty? Was it wrong? Was it secretive? What were you told not to do that or were you affirmed in it? And what experiences did you have? What did you observe? What did you hear? And we search through, and sometimes it takes a while for those cobwebs to, to untangle it too.

And we go through all the topics and then we start looking at it. So, so does that work for you? Where did this story come from? Is this your story? Is this, was this handed down to you? And does it work for where you are now? Do you need this message? Do you need this value? Do you need this viewpoint, um, in where you're heading in with your sexual self?

And it goes into three categories. It's, you know, it's thrown out completely. It's just absolutely not mine, not truth for me. Um, it needs to be recycled, uh, that we need to tweak it a little bit. Like some of it works, some of it doesn't, and then others like, yeah, it does. This fits for me. It's remained constant and it's interesting listening to people go through this process because again, there's a lot of questions where we don't, we don't prioritize our sexuality. So oftentimes it feels like a luxury to even ask these questions to ourselves instead of a necessity. But it's really a necessity to do this. And so they go through it and, and they're not sure.

And there's a lot of hesitancy, about it. And it, it often begins with sex acts. So, it begins with what we were all originally taught, what sex was, and I move it typically, uh, then into holistic sexuality. So, I have 10 parts of sexuality that I think match and that's pleasure. It's desire, It's behaviors and practices. It is sensuality. It's health and reproduction. It's love and intimacy. It's relationship, connection, sexualization, identity, and then agency. So, then we go through all of those and we start looking at what, what works for you and what doesn't and who are you? And, and we, we aren't afraid of the, I don't knows, and that sometimes can happen in the untangling and unraveling.

It's, it's, it's really scary to not know. You think you have to know the answer, but we just have a tone of curiosity through it, and eventually you start stepping into those places of I don't know this, but I know this. And um, and eventually we move more to the place of, I think this, and I'll see, and here are the places where I need to know more about myself and what I think.

And I need to, I need to either learn more or I need to start asking myself more. And it's a pretty pivotal moment when people realize they have the right to decide what's right for them over what everyone else is telling them. Society or family or relationship or whatever. 

Jessica Hornstein: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I would imagine sometimes there's a lot of fear. For people to acknowledge, acknowledge things around that that, may um, sort of put their, their role right? Change their role in their family or change, Change their, how they, they see themselves in the world. And that can be really scary for people. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Yes. And to, to step in the truth of who you are. It's scary to do it alone, like just acknowledging that privately and then it's another layer to, to step into those relationships that we're already formed and had a view of you or an experience of you. And you have to, if, if you're doing this, coming to yourself in the context of relationships with others, no matter what the relationship is, family or romantic, or children, the other person or people have to give space for this new realization, this new revelation of who you are so that you can reclaim it and keep relationships that work for you. and sometimes it means ending relationships that don't work for you anymore. And that's a very brave and hard space too. 

Jessica Hornstein: It is. It is. And it sounds like you, one of the things that you really encourage is that people find a group or a space, Anybody who, where they can be that, that vulnerable with, and that open with, and it's a safe space to explore or discuss any, any of those things. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And you know, people will, will say like, they need to do all this individual work on their, on their, on their own. And there is, there has to be a part of, of private self-reflection and, and accountability and, and insight. That has to happen so that you're not influenced by others. But then you have to interact in the world and you, you do need to, to kind of try on the new clothing and see how it fits in these relationships and, and it's a skill to give information about yourself to somebody else and have them witness it instead of having them give their opinion, um, advice or thoughts on it. And those relationships are such rich, important relationships, especially when you're doing the new revelation of you. 

Jessica Hornstein: What kind of languaging would you say people could use that might be helpful in those situations where you want to share, you don't want somebody's advice, but you want to be able to be open about, about who you are. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: So, I do this with my clients and my personal life. So, whenever anyone's sharing and then I do it myself proactively, is I, I will check in. So, I'll just say, if I'm sharing something about myself, I will check in to say, what do I need? Do I need someone just to witness this? Do I need them to, to gimme advice? Do I need them to gimme their thoughts? And then if someone comes to me, I'll ask that question. So, it's already from the beginning—I, I know what my role is or I know what I know what to ask for. And if, if someone, or if you are just needing the witnessing part of it, then it's simply “Thank you for sharing a part of you with me.” You know, “Beautiful to witness your self-discovery or your, your knowledge.” And that's it. Which is not it as in like a little, it, like that's, that's the sentence. That's, right? Right. That's where it ends. And it can be disarming. Because in a lot of ways we've, we have socialized ourselves that the polite, good thing to do as a friend or whatever, is to really do all this affirmation or, or, you know, it's a valuable discussion when you can counter it and do critical thinking with them. And there's space for that. But we've missed the art of just sitting there saying, I see you, and uh, and that's a powerful sentence too. 

Jessica Hornstein: Absolutely. Well, that's at the of the heart of what I'm doing too, which is exactly why. Yeah. Because I mean, in so many ways, people are not feeling seen, not feeling heard. Right, the name is No, Not Crazy because, I just kept hearing people over and over being like, “Am I crazy? I'm not crazy, right?” You know, similar to what the kinds of things you hear where people are like, “Oh, this can't be normal, this can't be right, or everybody else is doing it differently.” There's that self-doubt, right? And that, that questioning of, um, what, what does maybe feel right to you or what you think might feel right. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a tough space, but freeing and, I mean, I love the name of your podcast and I love the premise of it the phrasing may sound different, but that's, that's a lot of the questions that people don't know where to ask.

You have a very small bubble of people you can trust in your private life, for most people about asking sexual questions or, or questions about who they are as a sexual being. Which means we don't get modeling, we don't get to hear examples, we don't get to hear, how do you say it, and how do you not say it? And we just walk around in our little shame bubbles or questioning bubbles and, and expect to have a vibrant sexual life, after, after all of that. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yeah. How can we, enjoy it if you know, first of all, it's not even true to you, maybe, or, or you have the shame about it. How would they, you know, how do you recommend after, they've done their work—and in an ideal world, as you said, their partner would be sort of on a journey or, or open—how do you recommend that people approach that with their partners in a way where it may be well received? 

Certainly, that must be a scary thing to do, and the last thing you want is somebody being like, oh, you know, or, or getting upset because maybe they feel shamed. So, you don't wanna present something in a way, right, where you're, your partner is feeling that it means it's some reflection of them and what they're, what they're doing are not doing. And so how, how do you recommend people approach that kind of conversation in a way where everybody kind of can come out of it feeling, feeling heard and seen and validated, for who they are and what they want? 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: It's tricky. I mean, that, that's the first part that, that, that I'll, I'll say to people is like, this, this is an art form to this that has been kept from us. And so, we're, we're discovering it together. And so, you just have to loosen the reigns of, of anxiety and worry with that. And again, adopt the philosophy and the, and the viewpoint of curiosity. Curiosity, it is just the salve to a lot of things. Um, and when you're stepping into the, to the sexuality space, because it really removes judgment and it really removes the right and wrong, and it really helps be a bridge, um, in a relationship rather than a divider.

And it's harder than you think. Uh, it is instinctive for a lot of people to be like, “The what?” Like “You want what?” Uh, like before they can help it. Like we could talk for 10 minutes about curiosity and have all the verbiage and then it happens. So, they're like, oh, I just. So, you know, and how do, so we do lots of like, how do you walk back when you've done an automatic judgment? How do you walk it back? And how, how do, how do you, um, create a safe space again? So, the first thing I always do is, what do you need to feel safe? What do you need to feel safe to be emotionally vulnerable? Uh, and to show up authentically to somebody. And so, I go through that with every, every couple.

And it's, what do you need from the other to feel safe? What do you need from the environment to feel safe? And what are you responsible for in creating safety, um, for yourself in this interaction so that you can show up authentically and and with vulnerability? And it's interesting how, couples that have been together years have no idea what the other person needs to feel safe.

Um, or they don't know how to answer it themselves. And so sometimes that's a quick thing and sometimes it's, we do a lot of work in that because you have to have safety in order to, um, to really feel in any way aligned with who you are as a sexual being. Because it's so judged, because it's so mysterious, and because we're not educated about it.

And then when, when we have that kinda established and it's, it's not perfection, it's just progress and safety, progress and communication, um, and curiosity. Then, we, we, you know, with couples, what you wanna do is, is figure out, do you, do you know why sexuality is important to your relationship?

Like, do you, what is the why and, and the answers are often, kind of regurgitating what we've been taught, but not the why. It's like, well, you're just supposed to. Like it's, if you don't have sex, then you're not in a happy marriage or you gotta please each other or, or whatever. And, and that's a starting point for a lot of people, but that's, that it's not gonna get you a fulfilling sexual life.

And then there's a lot of times that we expect our partner, if we're with one person, to meet all of our needs and, um, and that you let go of what you need to provide for yourself and your sexual life. We do that dance of why is sexuality important in a relationship? Why is it something that we've made so sacred beyond procreation, but like, what is this about?

What is it doing for you and why should it be a priority? And then, um, what, uh, what, what are you doing to make your sexual life vibrant? Not just your sex life with your partner vibrant. And that can take some time too, to unpack a whole lot, uh, within it. And people's whys are different about why sexual connection is so important.

But in general, for me, why I think it's so important for couples, people in their life too, but for those who are a couple is that it's, it's such a, it, it is such a unique place to show up authentically and there's, and there's so often people are, as they grow up in their sexual selves, they are, you said it earlier, it's, there's a performance aspect to it, that there's a removal either through like alcohol and drugs, that that's when they can let loose.

And so, there's, there's a disconnect in, in that space of showing up authentically. Or they think this is what their partner likes or this is what it's supposed to sound like, and they don't really know what brings their body pleasure and how can they relax into that, and then how can they find their edges.

So that's gonna, one of the last places we, we do all that. And then I love getting to the places of like, what are your edges? And everyone gets to define what their edges are. For some people it's, you know, may feel unspeakable to say what, what their edges are. And for others it's like, really that's your edge? Not, that's not how I feel. But like, you know, in the general sense of things. 

And it's so beautiful when, I love witnessing people just saying these, this is a yes, this is a yes, this is a oh, and this is a no, and this is a no too. if you're coupled with somebody, when you find those yeses together, it's just super yummy. And when you find your nos together, I find that to be super yummy. Um, and I, I love encouraging, people to not be afraid to see things in themselves again with safety and consent. Um, and to find that nos are, are not the worst thing in the world. They're, they're just as important and as powerful as a yes.

And just to find lightness. Sex is, sexual connection is just weird and messy and, you know, there's just all sorts of odd things that happen when you're actually getting to the sex acts itself, right? So, if you can find lightness and humor in that process, and again, curiosity, that also helps you to understand why yes, sleep is fantastic, but your sexual life has to be good enough, fulfilling enough, and authentic that it, that it feels like a good option over, sleep at times.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. It's supposed to be fun, right? Like, yeah. It's supposed to be enjoyable and—

Dr. Juliana Hauser: feel good, enjoyable, flavorful. 

Jessica Hornstein: I mean that it's kind of the, part of the point, right? And not, not a thing to stress about or yeah, as I said, you know, as you're saying, it's, it's not a performance and if we could remove all that, that judgment and that stress, self-judgment even, or, you know, outside judgment and, and stress about that, it would carry us a long way. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: It, it does. And, and the other part too, like once we can get through that part of things, and again, like we are, I'm talking about like sifting through so much. Then when people like, oh, I get it. I get what you're saying, Juliana. And okay, so now what? So now you've opened this door. Like, where, what are, what are my options at this point?

And there's a couple things that I like to, to tell people too. And one is like, so sensuality is the first whole, the whole first pillar of sexuality that I, that I talk about with, with people, and you know, you hear that phrasing, what happens inside the bedroom happens outside the bedroom. And although not all sex happens in the bedroom, the phrase stands. And, and so sensuality is a really great place for this because although we not everybody has every sense or capability of the senses in the same ways, we all have some of them at, at the least. And when you, when you understand who you are as a sensual person, like what, what you're drawn to hearing wise, your turn-ons and your turns off inside sexual connection and outside sexual connection, you start learning other parts of yourself and that builds upon the other pillar of pleasure and the other pillar of desire, which is when you start thinking about like the my, my first 15 minutes of a conversation about pleasure with people is what is your relationship with pleasure? Do you deny yourself, and I'm not even talking about sex, do you? Are you somebody that it's when you're asked how you're doing, busy, busy, busy. And that's like the compliment that you're a very busy person.

Are you somebody that, that just doesn't pay attention to the blissful moments in a day in a millisecond? And those, those little microbursts of joy. Um, and then you over-indulge. or are you somebody that is, has more of an even way of looking at joy and pleasure and desire in your life and vibrancy in your life.

And when you start knowing that parts of yourself, then you start understanding, ah, this isn't just about penetrative sex. That's not what she's talking about. We're talking about do you understand how being pleasure-filled can change your life? Mm. And enrich all aspects of your relationship and all different kinds of relationship. Do you understand that, yes, we're talking about libido and desire, but really what really talking about is vibrancy. What do you do to feed the vibrancy in your life? I'm not talking about vibrancy in sex acts—just in your soul. Yes. What are you doing? And all of that feeds upon itself. And then all of a sudden, you're like, okay, we're talking about the whole person.

And then that allows you, cuz it that helps, that helps understand the why more. It helps us move into sex, sex isn't like isn't just like a perfunctory thing. it is, it's a crucial aspect of who we are. Then you can start doing things like this one exercise and, and, and then I'll stop with, with that.

Part of it is this four-quadrant exercise that I think is, it's just brilliant. I didn't come up with it. it's, it's out there in the world so much that there's, no one really knows who started it, and it's very simple, but really, really powerful but it takes a while to get to this place.

Like you have to do some of the other work to really have it, have this really work. and you divide a paper in vertical and horizontal. So, you have four quadrants and one quadrant is, um, sex acts that I've done that I, I want to try again. The next is sex acts that I've done that I don't think I wanna try anymore sex acts.And third is sex acts that I haven't tried, but I think I want. And the last is sex acts that I haven't tried that I think I don't wanna try. And then you get this long list of, of sex acts, everything from like having my hand kissed to like the most like make you blush statement that you have to look up the definition of, then you start filling it.

And you, if you're, even if you're, if you're in a relationship, you do it individually and, and you don't get so tied to this, it isn’t set in stone. This is just who you are on that day and how you're feeling. You don't, you're not, the way that I do it is you're not allowed to waffle. You have to choose if there's, if it's on the paper, you have to choose which quadrant it goes into.

And that is really confronting to some people to have to make a choice. And people are like, “Well, it all depends on, it just—" and I get it, context matters, for sure. But in general, like, yeah, still choose. And then you look at it and you do this analysis of what your quadrants. And, and you look at, so what judgments do you have?

What shame is popping up for you? What quadrant do you want nobody to see, right? Yeah. You're hiding this kind of thing from, and it tells you a lot. And then if you're coupled, you share it, you create that safe space and you share it. And it's so fun when you find the the commonalities. And it's really fun when you find the differences. And that adds a lot to sexual connection and who you are as a sexual being too. 

Jessica Hornstein: Mm. I think like in any aspect of, um, a relationship, it sounds like such an important part of this is approaching it as a team. 

Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm. 

Jessica Hornstein: You know, and I, I think people miss this in relationships all the time and, um, is that you're on the same side. Like the idea is that you're on the same side right in, in a healthy relationship, that you're trying to come to a place where everybody's happy, everybody's getting their needs met as much as possible. And how, how, how do we get there together?

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm. And how do you, like, you're, you're, you're supposed, the relationship's supposed to make your lives better, and enrich each other's experience with each other. And so often we get in the way of that. And, um, you're right. I, I agree. And, and teamwork is, it's not inherent in some relationships.

And that's not by any fault in some ways, it's just what they've seen or it's their protective mechanisms, um, or just a lack of, of resource in it. And so, some, some of that can be taught and then some couples just naturally fall into that, that they just, they see issues and challenges as them together looking at it instead of sparring over it. Um, some people are, are just arguers and see everything as, as, as a me or them. 

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm. Well, and we certainly, uh, you know, have a ways to go as a culture because you know, especially like between men and women. There's always this sort of pitting against each other, right?

Oh, well men are gonna be this, women, men are gonna be that, you know? And so it's sort of inherent you know, we're taught to expect that, that, that's how it'll be. That this, this person is gonna have this whole other thing that they want and that's not going to match with me, and we're gonna have to fight it out for, power or who gets their way and who, you know, who doesn't get their way. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's, that's something we all have to reflect on, and, see how we could see that differently. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And encourage that. So, like when I ask people about like, you know what, what their needs are, I ask, are you somebody that people can, uh, your partner or people in your life can share their needs with? Do you ask like, what kind of partner are you showing up as and not just what, what you're needing from somebody else? And then that, I think that gets over overlooked a lot. And like when we, when we're, are feeling a lack, which sometimes that is the case.

Sometimes it's, it is the other person and it's not us. But, um, but sometimes it's the way that we're showing up too. And, um, we need to learn those skills and feel brave enough to learn those skills too. And, and, uh, and, and, and then your sexual life. We wanna be cheerleaders for each other. It can feel scary enough to figure out who you are.

It can also feel really scary like, like what if I find out my partner, who I've already committed to? Or they've, they've changed, um, and they find a different part of themselves. What if that doesn't align with me anymore? What if, what do I, what do I do now? And if we have these big differences.

So, so sometimes people will say, I, I don't wanna poke the bear. Like, I don't need to know what I don't need to know, or, you know, I don't wanna stir up trouble here. Like, it's fine living at this level until it isn't. Um, and, and looking at each other as a team is, is a crucial element of making it work.

Jessica Hornstein: What do you do when somebody, you know, is in that space and and it's not received, the way they hoped for mm-hmm. you know? I think that that must come up a lot, right? “I can't go there.”

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm. It's this tough space and it's, it's a place where it feels, again, like pretty sacred of like, we're walking into the truth. Especially if you've done the work, if you've done the work, to show up authentically and genuinely about who you are and done all the safety stuff, and you look at each other like, “Whoa, this is a difference. This is a core difference.” And I'm not talking about something like, you know, small. You know that, that there's not a lot at stake, but I'm talking about the difference between this is a compromise for the relationship versus a compromise of my soul. Compromises for the relationship—there's just a negotiation that happens and then back and forth and, and that's, you know, a lot of the space where I stay with people. But there are certainly times that couples come to me, and it is a compromise of the soul. And when that's the case, it's just rare that it, that it's meant to, to, to progress.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm. 

Juliana Hauser: And, you know, Glennon Doyle used this phrase, and it became pretty, popular. which is that the relationships don't fail. They complete. And it's sometimes that's what my, my role is, is to help a relationship complete. Because if you're compromising your soul for a relationship, it will change you and change the relationship in ways that it's very hard to live, live in.

Jessica Hornstein: How would you make that distinction? Like how would you help somebody understand that distinction for themselves? Whether this is compromising my soul, or this is just compromising, you know, something I can give?

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm. Sometimes there's a, there's a nuance to it and sometimes it's a personality thing. You have to be pretty self-aware to really tune into how I answer it. And that's that you can feel it in your bones, you can feel it. And there's a sometimes, so it's a difference of like anxiety. You have an anxiety about something or irritation or annoyance or just like a, like a, like a reactive thing.

Mm-hmm. That's more a compromising for the relationship moment, typically, but a guttural like sick feeling like that, that's turning of your stomach, it's a more of a whole-body reaction to it that is consistent and has a depth to its feeling. That's more, that falls into the compromise of the soul. Mm-hmm. And that doesn't mean, sometimes it's the most peaceful part of you—that knowing. It's not this reactive thing. Sometimes it is, but it's, there's often this, grief that people present when they, their body, their soul is telling them this is a compromise for, uh, my soul. 

The other thing is I have found it to be harder for people to articulate something that's a compromise of their soul than it is something that's a compromise for the relationship. They can debate on a witness stand and it's like a, you know, it's a courtroom in some ways when it's a compromise. Um, but when it's a core thing, uh, sometimes it's difficult. More difficult for them to communicate it at first. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes, yes. Yeah. I think a lot of times when people feel like they're confused, you know, or they don't know the answer to something, it's, it's not so much that, it's more that they're afraid of the answer or they don't like the answer. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Hornstein: But they actually know it.

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Agreed. Yeah. Well said. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I've been there for sure. 

Jessica Hornstein: Sure.

Dr. Juliana Hauser: I don't wanna face this, I don't want this to be true and the consequences of what will come to bear after I speak this truth or I walk away from this, or, or whatever. That's, that's difficult. But your, your soul still knows. 

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And on the other side of it is a whole, a whole other experience of life. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Yes. Yep. 

Jessica Hornstein: When you're, when you're in living in your truth like that. Yeah. 

So how did this, how did you get to this, to this work? You said you were sort of an unlikely person and, you were a kindergarten teacher and, what compelled you, or how did that path lead you to this?

Dr. Juliana Hauser: So I, um, I, I was always a very curious child. Like the, the joke in my family was that like I would run around naked everywhere and my sister would be horrified by me being naked. And that sounds pretty, uh, stereotypical of an answer at first. But yeah, there that, there was some of that, that I just had this comfort, and I was just always asking questions and very curious about bodies, very curious about what any of that kind of meant. Just not knowing. 

And, and my parents did the best they could with how they were raised too, but they were both really conservative and both in the medical community and not very comfortable with the topic and pretty nervous about their kind of wildfire daughter that they that they had in some ways.

But I, I, I never felt like it was wrong. I never felt like what I was thinking was wrong. And then I had this dichotomy. I had all this curiosity, but I also had the, the good girl syndrome. And so, I had this dissonance inside me of this feels normal. This feels like it feels normal to be questioning and wondering about this, but it's also bad if you do anything about it and act on it.

And so, I, I lived with that dissonance and not a whole lot of cognitive awareness. I just felt it. I had this one story in, in seventh grade and like the, the sex ed class you got in, in, in phys ed when, you know, in my age group and I was so excited that I got the hot, track teacher cuz she looked like she knew sex. I remember thinking she knows the sex. So, I'm gonna get all that. 

Jessica Hornstein: I'm gonna get some good information. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Hear, finally hear. Yeah. But. And, uh, and she let us, you know, put all these, these pieces of paper, we could ask questions and she handled it so well. And I had this thing that if I am surprised or really embarrassed about something, my face turns red, and I cannot control it.

So, I knew I'd be embarrassed. So, I, like, I, I did my piece of paper in a certain way so that I, when she got to it, I could control myself. And like, here it goes. And she said, no questions were off limits. And I couldn't just figure out, I, I was like, one question, like I've got 40. Like, oh, how do I pick the one question and this is my only shot. So, I did my question. I folded a certain way, it was, came my turn and she opened it up and she was like, “Inappropriate.” And she threw it in the trashcan. 

Jessica Hornstein: Oh. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And, and I was devastated. And I felt, and of course my face turned red cause I didn't expect that to happen. And I'm sure people knew. and I remember thinking, this isn't right. This again, it was just like seventh grade. It wasn't like, I was like, “Oh, and I'm gonna be a sex educator.” Like, it wasn't that, but it, it is planted a seed. And the question was, "What is the deal with discharge?" And that was my question. 

Jessica Hornstein: “What is the deal?” 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And I never, I just took forever to find out the deal of it because she would, she didn't answer it and because she deemed that inappropriate, it felt like this was a bad question to ask. Don't ask about vaginal discharge, and that is so terrible. That is not a bad question, and it's not inappropriate, and it shouldn't have taken me that many years to find out and deal with it. 

Jessica Hornstein: And we didn't have Google back then. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: No Google back then. None of it. And that wasn't in encyclopedias either. 

Jessica Hornstein: Right? Right. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: I looked. Um, and, uh, so, uh, so then fast forward, I went away to college, and I had a group of girlfriends that we all had very different sexual histories, very different sexual interest, and for some reason, and we weren't perfect and even now when, when they hear me talking about their, they, they'll say like, really? Where were, where were we like that? I was like, we were, my experience was, it was the first time that I was in a group of, especially women where, um, you, you were expected to tell the truth and you were not judged for it.

And so having that atmosphere of everyone sharing and we laughed, and we made fun of each other, and we cried with each other and we, you know, we pondered, and we wondered and was again, before Google, so we were just trying to figure shit out on our own. And but what I walked away from that was I want a community like this.

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Juliana Hauser: I want places where I get to show up and who I am, and I don't have to be like so-and-so, and I can learn from that person. And, and I get to, I get to figure out who I am. And, and, and a lot of it is that that era or that time was, you know, was figuring out who we are as sexual beings. And it was the first time I was really becoming sexual in my life.

And then I went away, I got married really young and uh, and I thought that's how it was like, oh, once you get it, then you, then you get it. And I realized, no. And then I was married and it felt like the rules changed again. Like it was okay to talk about it when we were boyfriend/girlfriend, but when you got married, things became sacred and quiet and secretive.

And so, the questions that I had about who we were as sexual beings and you know, really joining my sexuality with a person for, you know, for good or, you know, I thought for good. Um, I didn't know who to ask anymore and I couldn't find other people and other, you know, for me it was other wives, like they weren't sharing.

And so again, all these seeds got planted and I was a teacher, but then I became a counselor and fast forward to me getting, when I was in my doctoral program, I had one class on sex. That's it. And I don't know if a lot of people know this, but you could be a therapist and a physician and never have a class on sexuality.

It's just horrible to me. But I got, I was lucky to be in the few programs that offered this, and I was like, “Hmm. Like, ooh, like I love this.” And my classmates were like, bored. And I couldn't believe that this wasn't the best class ever that, this for everyone. And my, my professor took me aside. She's like, so you're different. She's like, once in the blue moon I see somebody like you. And she's like, you really, you, you should, you should go into this. You should focus on this. And, and then I started looking back on my master's program and all the, the settings that I was in. And I was always drawn to sexuality stuff.

I worked in an AIDS outreach program. I worked in a sexual abuse center. And I always asked my clients about their sexual life, and I didn't know other people didn't do that. It just felt like such a natural, big part of our lives, why weren't we asking it? And when I started doing training a therapist and realizing how, you know, just cuz therapists are humans too, and they are just as uneducated about their sexuality too.

Jessica Hornstein: It may be uncomfortable too. Right. They have their own their own, 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Their own. Own messaging. And if you're not, if in our own training we aren't given the chance to unpack our stuff, how in the world, you know, can we provide that in a lot of ways for other people?

So, um, so I went on a mission to, you know, get a lot more educated and, and, and I realized, when you know who you are as a sexual being, it changes everything. And, and I and I, I found that it wasn't this opposite. It wasn't like, here's therapy, here's sex. It was, sexuality is the final frontier of self-development.

It is one of the last places our society has focused on how do you know who you are? And so, then it felt exciting in, in, in another way. And it felt, you know, really passionate for me. And, and I have a whole other like, personal journey in that too that, you know, would be another podcast. But that's, that's a bit of it.

Uh, I love it. I love my work. I love helping people see that sexuality really matters. and it matters more than just sex acts, although that's great too. But it really can change your life in a deepened way. And, uh, and to be a person that lives that too. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Yes. Well, yeah. It's, I think it helps you embody everything. Right? It's, I mean, it's, it's physical, spiritual, it's, you know, it's emotional. It does really, the thread goes through all the other, all the other aspects of your life that are critical to who you are as well. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And that you get to do it your own way I used to like, have my view of what a sexual person was and that was not me.

So, then I must not be sexual. Mm-hmm. And that's not true. And so, when that came to me too, I wanted, I wanted to create a space for people to find out who they were and no rules just discovery. Mm-hmm. And, and that's a skill that when you can do that in, in your sexual life, you can do it in all areas of your life. And, and it becomes the game changer. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Feeling comfortable about defining yourself. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Yeah. Agency. 

Jessica Hornstein: for yourself. Yeah. Yes, yes. No, I think it's so important what you said too about, um, about therapists, or, or any practitioners. I mean, frankly, I've, I'm sure most of us women have had this experience where, even, even your gynecologists Oh, right.

And even female gynecologists. Right. Where you, you think they'll understand, or they'll, they'll be able to talk about this. Like, it's so not a part of gynecological healthcare is to talk about any, anything. Really, other than like, okay, everything checks out. Move on, right? 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: They're not trained. even when I, they're go to like pitch, uh, lectures to medical schools, they'll look at me like, we don't have time and it's not that important. And like, would you like to hear this plethora of stories of trauma that people have, especially women have, uh, women identified folk or vulva, vulva owning folk have in, in those, in those doctor's offices.

And you will not find this to be a luxury topic. It isn't. And you're right. and again, I'm not hating on the medical community. I, I just think there's more, none of us are given this and, and it's such a statement of what we think about sexuality, that two places that are the most trusted places to go to with your mental health and your physical health are not being trained adequately.

Jessica Hornstein: Right. to be a container for that. Yeah. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And we are not given that information that, that people were going to have not been trained in this topic unless they're willing to say it. But I'll, so I now, I'll probably like in some people's worst nightmare, I walk in and I'm like, if I have a new doctor, I'm like, “So how much do you care about my sexual health?”

And how they respond to it tells me everything. And I'm like, “Okay, see you later.” And I know they judge me. I know they think, and people judge me for what I do. People, you know, think I'm very promiscuous or they think that that's all I do. And that's not true, I'm just not shy about saying like, “My sexual health matters. Holistically, my sexual health matters. Does it matter to you?” Because there's gonna be things that are hard for me to say. There's even me, even though I have a high comfort level in this, there's still parts that I feel shamed about. There's still parts that feel awkward for me. So, if you're gonna be helping my sexual health, which in some cases is life or death—in some cases it is. Like there's some cancers in some reproductive cancers that are silent killers that if we don't know how to talk about it, uh, we are, we are losing people through this. Men and women, all genders and, But I also do it just a little bit of a shock factor. Just they can't handle it, then they're not gonna, you know, there, there's, I'm not gonna feel comfortable with them.

Jessica Hornstein: I kind of wanna do that everywhere I go now. I'm gonna be like at the supermarket like at the cashier. Do you care?

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Do you care? Yes. Yes. Yeah. And it's a difference. And, and, and I sometimes I get lost in people is I asked about sexual health, not sexual life. Mm-hmm. and people hear, do you care about my sexual life? But I'm saying sexual health, which includes my sexual life and yours. But, you know, that nuance matters.

The bias comes out too, And I love it. I love it when a, when a physician will be like, “Sure, yeah” like, so I know that they have a, they're not used to it, but they still could be an ally. And that's what we all need. 

Jessica Hornstein: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you for all the work that you do. I mean, you really do bring this conversation, to the forefront and in such, I think, such an accessible way for everybody.

I know in all your work and your, your groups and your courses and your talks and everything, there's so much, so much value in that. And I really, I hope everybody, you know, checks it out because. we all can learn, learn more about this. And it's an evolution. So, you don't get done, right? It changes over the course of a life.

Dr. Juliana Hauser: And sexuality. It's fluid. Like you said, it's fluid and it's one of the few things we all have in common. And, uh, we, we, we need to have a society that, that allows for, for that fluidity to be normalized. 

Jessica Hornstein: Mm-hmm. Yes. Right. Normalized. That's exactly it. Well, thank you so much. Dr. Juliana. it's, it's such a pleasure. I know we could, we could talk forever. There's so many more things I'd love to get to. Maybe we'll come back sometime and we'll, we'll get to those. It's really been a pleasure. 

Dr. Juliana Hauser: Thank you so much. Again, thank you for diving into this space. it, it really helps everything evolve. and I appreciate your questions. 

Jessica Hornstein: Thank you. Take care.

Thank you for listening and being part of the conversation. Please find a way to validate yourself today. Maybe find a way to validate someone else too. And if you enjoyed the show, please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also join me at No, Not Crazy on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

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